Future for London's Rail Fares

[si404]

My comment "Who do you suggest pays for that?" was about the reduction in fare revenue if a zonal structure results in fares falling on some routes.

But that wasn't clear, nor did I suggest fares would fall. I assumed you were talking about paying for the admin work, etc.

At least, after that first paragraph of deflection, answer my question:

is about increasing TfL and NR revenue (obviously by increasing fares) on a structure more closely aligned to distance in all directions than the current zonal basis. I acknowledge that development costs of this are quite considerable but it could pay for itself from the increased fare income.

ie the passengers will pay, and they will more than pay for it if it works as you hope.

 

[JonathanH]

But that wasn't clear, nor did I suggest fares would fall. I assumed you were talking about paying for the admin work, etc.

At least, after that first paragraph of deflection, answer my question:
ie the passengers will pay, and they will more than pay for it if it works as you hope.

Passengers who are currently getting a good deal will almost certainly pay more. Others might pay the same. Some could pay less. That is going to happen anyway if PAYG is extended, just as some people paid more in 2010 when the fare structure was changed in London.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Sorry, a bit behind on reading this thread but, yes, dft should take both the cpay and negotiate a zero royalty use of the Oyster. Brand and take the opportunity to apply both in the former NSE area. Something that is simple and many pax would welcome.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough in what I said and have triggered a big debate about zonal fares which wasn't my plan. What I do think might be a sensible way forward is to take CPay (which doesn't have to be zonally based, it is really just a payment mechanism), the Oyster Brand (known and recognised all over the region) and base the future ticket retailing strategy on these. That would doubtless need to include a distance based charging approach plus discounts for day trips, seasons etc. etc.. In otherwords, leave the straightjacket of the Oyster Zones behind (at least beyond Zone 6): the system is based on what smartcards could do 25 years ago, not what the CPay backoffice can do now.
TfL think Oyster is zonal pricing system, I think it is a retail brand. TfL should be given the credit for developing one of the most recognisable brands in the London and South East region and we should all move on.
(Zonal pricing has both advantages and disadvantages: it makes most sense within large cities and towns but less so outside them.)
The actual challenge is to get TfL, DfT and TOCs to work together to iron out all of the complexities, particularly X-London, mixed-mode journeys. Now that TOCs are not on revenue risk for anything that should be easier, no?

 

[JonathanH]

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough in what I said and have triggered a big debate about zonal fares which wasn't my plan. What I do think might be a sensible way forward is to take CPay (which doesn't have to be zonally based, it is really just a payment mechanism), the Oyster Brand (known and recognised all over the region) and base the future ticket retailing strategy on these. That would doubtless need to include a distance based charging approach plus discounts for day trips, seasons etc. etc.. In otherwords, leave the straightjacket of the Oyster Zones behind (at least beyond Zone 6): the system is based on what smartcards could do 25 years ago, not what the CPay backoffice can do now.
TfL think Oyster is zonal pricing system, I think it is a retail brand. TfL should be given the credit for developing one of the most recognisable brands in the London and South East region and we should all move on.
(Zonal pricing has both advantages and disadvantages: it makes most sense within large cities and towns but less so outside them.)
The actual challenge is to get TfL, DfT and TOCs to work together to iron out all of the complexities, particularly X-London, mixed-mode journeys. Now that TOCs are not on revenue risk for anything that should be easier, no?

You have a point but how much capacity does Oyster have for a muiltitude of different point-to-point fares to be specified and, if you do move to a point-to-point system, how are passengers reassured that the fare for a given journey is reasonable? There seems to be a reluctance to look up fares before travel from people in London because the fares charged are typically 'cheap' but once you are talking of £25 for a point to point fare that may be £35 if you don't touch the right reader, it starts to become different and involve nasty surprises.