Future of CC Voyagers?

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jazzy

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Does anyone know what the future holds for Cross Country and their Voyagers? I occasionally have to use them and find them really quite unpleasant (claustrophobic cabin, noisy, engine vibrations, distinct and unpleasant smell, mobile signal blocking metallic window film as well as their worn seats and decor). When were they last refurbished? It feels like they've not been touched for years...
Can the vibration transmission from the engine be fixed / improved with better isolation in a re-engineering exercise? I realise there's not much that can be done for the claustrophobic cabin.

I travelled on one at the weekend despite trying to get an HST service. On the return journey, we were on an HST and that seemed to have been refurbished recently but felt like it was done on a low budget. Despite that, it was a far more comfortable experience.

Comparing the Voyagers to the GWR IEPs, they're worlds apart yet are both essentially DMUs when not under the wires. How did they get it so wrong with the Voyagers?

When will it be known who gets the CC franchise next? Is there likely to be any Voyager replacement / improvement on the cards?
 
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JonathanH

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They are going to continue to operate the services they currently run on for the foreseeable future.

See many other threads (including two active ones).
 

4REP

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Does anyone know what the future holds for Cross Country and their Voyagers? I occasionally have to use them and find them really quite unpleasant (claustrophobic cabin, noisy, engine vibrations, distinct and unpleasant smell, mobile signal blocking metallic window film as well as their worn seats and decor). When were they last refurbished? It feels like they've not been touched for years...
Can the vibration transmission from the engine be fixed / improved with better isolation in a re-engineering exercise? I realise there's not much that can be done for the claustrophobic cabin.

I travelled on one at the weekend despite trying to get an HST service. On the return journey, we were on an HST and that seemed to have been refurbished recently but felt like it was done on a low budget. Despite that, it was a far more comfortable experience.

Comparing the Voyagers to the GWR IEPs, they're worlds apart yet are both essentially DMUs when not under the wires. How did they get it so wrong with the Voyagers?

When will it be known who gets the CC franchise next? Is there likely to be any Voyager replacement / improvement on the cards?
One possible future but not confirmed is the next franchise will probably replace voyagers with the 800 series then voyagers moving to the northern franchise as fixed 4 car units and 5 cars moving to scotrail to replace HST sets.
The 4 car voyagers replace 195 diagrams in return replacing the sprinter diagrams down then ousting some or worst 150s/155s
Just a thought but you never know.
I can see a bi mode cross country fleet anyway/definitely.
 

swt_passenger

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One possible future but not confirmed is the next franchise will probably replace voyagers with the 800 series then voyagers moving to the northern franchise as fixed 4 car units and 5 cars moving to scotrail to replace HST sets.
The 4 car voyagers replace 195 diagrams in return replacing the sprinter diagrams down then ousting some or worst 150s/155s
Just a thought but you never know.
I can see a bi mode cross country fleet anyway/definitely.
That’s complete fiction IMHO. The next XC franchise should start late this year. It is far more likely the franchise will retain the existing Voyagers for maybe another 10 or 15 years...

However as said this subject has been discussed in quite a number of fairly recent threads.
 

Neptune

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One possible future but not confirmed is the next franchise will probably replace voyagers with the 800 series then voyagers moving to the northern franchise as fixed 4 car units and 5 cars moving to scotrail to replace HST sets.
The 4 car voyagers replace 195 diagrams in return replacing the sprinter diagrams down then ousting some or worst 150s/155s
Just a thought but you never know.
I can see a bi mode cross country fleet anyway/definitely.
Is there a source for that or just wishful thinking?

Sounds like pure speculation to me. The future of the Voyagers will be known when the franchise is finally re-let. Until then nobody knows.
 

Bevan Price

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There is no way that Voyagers would be wanted at Northern - or most of the other franchises. They are over-powered, expensive to run, and their door layout makes them totally unsuitable for the types of busy, heavily-loaded services operated by Northern. They would cause massive increases in station dwell times at busy stations, and worsen timekeeping. The only useful part of your suggestion might be to use a few of the 5 coach Voyagers on Glasgow / Edinburgh - Inverness services. The most likely option is that they - and the ex- WCML Voyagers remain on XC (or successor) until they are due for withdrawal (circa 2035 ?)
 

380101

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One possible future but not confirmed is the next franchise will probably replace voyagers with the 800 series then voyagers moving to the northern franchise as fixed 4 car units and 5 cars moving to scotrail to replace HST sets.
The 4 car voyagers replace 195 diagrams in return replacing the sprinter diagrams down then ousting some or worst 150s/155s
Just a thought but you never know.
I can see a bi mode cross country fleet anyway/definitely.
Very unlikely to ever see Voyagers as part of the ScotRail fleet given that in the most recent franchise tender it was written in such a way as to exclude units that had an unpleasant toilet smell in the coaches ie; Voyagers.
 

Clansman

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One possible future but not confirmed is the next franchise will probably replace voyagers with the 800 series then voyagers moving to the northern franchise as fixed 4 car units and 5 cars moving to scotrail to replace HST sets.
There is no possibility of this ever happening. It's simply a myth perpetuated by members who never looked into the detail of the ScotRail HST procurement and are instead basing proposals on their own fantasies.
 

Haydn1971

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There’s been a really good suggestion by one of the forum members that the 22x fleets could be reformed into a single four car and seven car fleet, the four car units generally used as a four plus four unit, giving a similar capacity as a seven car unit - whole fleet refurbished, good until 2035/2040 when the IEP Mk2 will be on the cards in a post HS2/NPR/EME world
 

Mogz

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As a daily XC sufferer, my own views on what I would like to see on the XC franchise are well known.

Ideally, it would be 9 Coach IET bi-modes or Nova-3 style loco hauled sets with a good mix of table and airline seats, buffets serving hot food and perhaps even a restaurant and a few family compartments like the German ICE.

Realistically, I’m hoping that XC at least get EMR’s Meridians which would enable
the Voyagers to double up permanently, meaning that although the standard will remain the same (on Voyager services at least), there would be more chance of getting a seat.
 

S-Bahn

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Voyagers Pros - speed and acceleration.
Voyagers Cons - pretty much everything else and compounded by chronic overcrowding.

At New Street the other week there were multiple Voyagers and a Turbostar at once and the air pollution was particularly bad on the platforms.

Having done a split journey the other day which combined a GWR 80x and a XC Voyager, the two were like chalk and cheese in terms of passenger experience. (The 80x was considerably better).

Someone with the stats can compare the current 80x diesel performance with the Voyagers.

It is assumed that Avanti's Voyagers will cascade to the XC franchise, as will some if not all of the EMR Meridians, when both franchises receive their new 80x IET's

So mid term it looks like the XC franchise will continue with existing rolling stock and cascaded units.

Further down the line I suspect Hitatchi will provide a modified 80x IET bi-mode for the franchise, which can match or better the Voyagers on diesel.
 

Railperf

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Voyagers Pros - speed and acceleration.

Further down the line I suspect Hitatchi will provide a modified 80x IET bi-mode for the franchise, which can match or better the Voyagers on diesel.
Yes, EMR's Class 810 Hitachi AT300 variant is supposed to be sporting an extra engine to match Class 22x power to weight ratio. In the meantime - there is an urgent need to improve MTU engine reliability across the 80x fleets. It is being reported many of TPE 802 services are running with at least one engine out.
 

D365

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They’d be ideal for the EMR Liverpool - Norwich route, from a capacity standpoint at least.
1. The service is to be split at Nottingham.
2. Sprinter diffs means they'd be slow between Peterborough and Norwich.
3. Four coaches wouldn't be a significant capacity improvement.
 
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