Ideas for future of displaced rolling stock

[TRAX]

Let's not forget that South Western Railway is soon going to get rid of the 30 brand-new Class 707 EMUs.

I do wonder what future they might have, given that a lot of (new) franchises in the UK have already placed their orders for new stock (Northern, Wales & Borders, West Midlands Railway/London Northwestern Railway...).
Could the 707s actually end up with nowhere to go ?

 

[SWT_USER]

Somewhere far away from London hopefully. Not comfortable units to commute on at all compared to the 458/5's they replaced.

 

[swt_passenger]

Southeastern as DC units, or if fitted with pans who knows. I think we’ve had this discussion before though.

 

[Domh245]

Southeastern as DC units, or if fitted with pans who knows. I think we’ve had this discussion before though.

I don't think that they'll wind up at southeastern - Both Govia and Abellio are supposed to have offered Hitachi AT100s for metro fleet replacement, whilst stagecoach have partnered with alstom. In both cases I'd be amazed if they offered anything other than a consistent metro fleet, so they would have to be reconfigured for mainline services, but whether they'd stack up well compared to other surplus fleets or new build is a different matter.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't think that they'll wind up at southeastern - Both Govia and Abellio are supposed to have offered Hitachi AT100s for metro fleet replacement, whilst stagecoach have partnered with alstom. In both cases I'd be amazed if they offered anything other than a consistent metro fleet, so they would have to be reconfigured for mainline services, but whether they'd stack up well compared to other surplus fleets or new build is a different matter.

Fair point.

Here's the last discussion by the way:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/future-of-class-707.144409/
I doubt anything new will come up this time round.

 

[Juniper Driver]

I hope they don't go,they are quite popular with the traincrews.AFAIK.

 

[TRAX]

But they will, nicely replaced by the 701s.

 

[Goldfish62]

Some further ideas/idle speculation/downright silliness:

To Southern to replace the 455s
To EMT reconfigured internally / pantographs fitted for Corby services
Trailer coaches used to strengthen 8-car 707s and driving coaches scrapped
Diesel engines stuck under them everyone realises that the 769s won't work
Reconfigured internally and used on Portsmouth fasts when it's found that the 442s can't keep to time
Recycled as paperclips

 

[MatthewRead]

Some further ideas/idle speculation/downright silliness:

To Southern to replace the 455s
To EMT reconfigured internally / pantographs fitted for Corby services
Trailer coaches used to strengthen 8-car 707s and driving coaches scrapped
Diesel engines stuck under them everyone realises that the 769s won't work
Reconfigured internally and used on Portsmouth fasts when it's found that the 442s can't keep to time
Recycled as paperclips

What about replacing Southern 313's have you not seen the state of them.

 

[rebmcr]

To Southern to replace the 455s

That's the suggestion that 'feels' best, but they're 34 carriages too few, even without expanding capacity.

 

[dk1]

Somewhere far away from London hopefully. Not comfortable units to commute on at all compared to the 458/5's they replaced.

Just throw all the seats away & refit them. No big deal really.

 

[LeeLivery]

I'd be happy to have them in Southern land, would make GTR (assuming they'll survive) the only Desiro City operator.

That's the suggestion that 'feels' best, but they're 34 carriages too few, even without expanding capacity.

I don't know if it is possible for the 707s, but I say order additional carriages and lengthen them to 10 cars. Assuming most 455s are run as doubles now, the 30 707s would be more than enough to replace them. If there is enough spear 707s to cover, take some of the 377s off the suburbans and use them to replace the Coastway 313s. Again, don't know if it's possible but would be pretty good to see.

 

[Bringback309s]

I bet they'll end up with Thameslink boosting services and lengthening trains there

 

[GW43125]

I hope they don't go,they are quite popular with the traincrews.AFAIK.

I spoke to a guard a while back and she said that from a guard perspective, they're a dream (well, almost) to work whilst the 458s are pigs in that respect.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Bolstering Thameslink's 700 fleet would seem most sensible in my opinion considering the fleets are (almost) identical. And then once the 700s go for overhaul, paint them in a decent livery

 

[Class455]

I think they could go to TL, and be used to expand the network to Caterham and Tattenham Corner, areas which would have been served under the original Thameslink programme, and since they have shorter platforms they can accommodate the 707's. I had a thought the other day that the Thameslink network could be extended to Guildford in the future, with trains running through the core and to Wimbledon, then calling at all stations from Raynes Park to Guildford via the New Guildford Line. Perhaps 707's could well be used for that

 

[D365]

Bolstering Thameslink's 700 fleet would seem most sensible in my opinion considering the fleets are (almost) identical.

Emphasis on the ‘almost’. Mechanically they are very different.

 

[edwin_m]

Emphasis on the ‘almost’. Mechanically they are very different.

Curious. Apart from obviously being shorter, what else is different? I would have thought Siemens would make the minimum modification to their standard design to meet the requirements of a new customer.

 

[Domh245]

I think it's mainly the installed power (both in terms of ratings of motors and also number of motor vehicles) that differs.

 

[D9009Spotter]

Some further ideas/idle speculation/downright silliness:

To Southern to replace the 455s
To EMT reconfigured internally / pantographs fitted for Corby services
Trailer coaches used to strengthen 8-car 707s and driving coaches scrapped
Diesel engines stuck under them everyone realises that the 769s won't work
Reconfigured internally and used on Portsmouth fasts when it's found that the 442s can't keep to time
Recycled as paperclips

Roast me if you will but couldn't they go up to Northern to the Leeds area or even to ScotRail? Procided these franchises both think that the 'older stock' is too dated? Seems to be a current trend is all.

 

[JonathanH]

Some further ideas/idle speculation/downright silliness:

To Southern to replace the 455s

That's the suggestion that 'feels' best, but they're 34 carriages too few, even without expanding capacity.

Displacing Southern 377s back to London to Sussex Coast services to run more 12-car trains would be a better option than replacing 455s

 

[Malcolmffc]

They will be wthdrawn and then handed to Vivarail to be marketed as “new trains”

 

[Goldfish62]

Roast me if you will but couldn't they go up to Northern to the Leeds area or even to ScotRail? Procided these franchises both think that the 'older stock' is too dated? Seems to be a current trend is all.

Yes, valid points. Then again the GA 379s and c2c 387s which already have pantographs and toilets need to find homes.

 

[physics34]

Yes, valid points. Then again the GA 379s and c2c 387s which already have pantographs and toilets need to find homes.

There was talk of Southern becoming an all Electrostar franchise. Watch this space i guess. Renember the 377/5s at Southeastern are still currently sub leased from Southern.

 

[TRAX]

Yes, valid points. Then again the GA 379s and c2c 387s which already have pantographs and toilets need to find homes.

Speaking of GA, what about the 360s ? Where are these going to go ?

 

[rebmcr]

Yes, valid points. Then again the GA 379s and c2c 387s which already have pantographs and toilets need to find homes.

I have a feeling the 387s will be staying put at c2c for much longer than originally announced.

 

[Domh245]

I have a feeling the 387s will be staying put at c2c for much longer than originally announced.

They are staying until their AVENTRAs arrive, which is later than originally announced but I don't see why they would need to start beyond that. After that, GN or GWR would be likely to snap them up

 

[mic505]

Export them to Thailand, lol. Or instead the 5-car 360/2's from Crossrail.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think they could go to TL, and be used to expand the network to Caterham and Tattenham Corner, areas which would have been served under the original Thameslink programme, and since they have shorter platforms they can accommodate the 707's.

There were valid reasons for not serving Cat/Tat, so which other services would you replace? No-one is going to be increasing the number of trains through the core anytime soon,

I had a thought the other day that the Thameslink network could be extended to Guildford in the future, with trains running through the core and to Wimbledon, then calling at all stations from Raynes Park to Guildford via the New Guildford Line. Perhaps 707's could well be used for that

How the heck do your up trains get from Raynes Park to Wimbledon P9? A flat crossing of the SWML fasts and the down slow? There were presumably pretty good reasons for Thameslink (as foreseen 10 years ago) dropping Guildford via Sutton, I cannot think of any valid reason to reinstate it, never mind run via Raynes Park?

 

[mushroomchow]

It'd make sense for them to end up on the Corby services, especially as they're mechanically almost identical to the 700s Thameslink operate and maintenance agreements could be reached.

Won't happen for as long as the DfT continue to insist on "intercity specification" stock matching the current 222s for the route, though. That's the primary reason given for it not having been absorbed into the Thameslink franchise, after all.