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Future of Wrexham-Bidston line, inc. possible franchise swap etc.

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PTA boundaries are now a lot more fluid than before, there is likely to be nothing preventing Wrexham County Borough (& even Flintshire) from joining the Combined Authority as non-constituent members, same as Warrington & West Lancashire.

TfW will be looking at how they can improve services, without increasing subsidies, & reducing subsidies where they can.

A way to do that for Wrexham-Bidston is to increase passenger revenues, so increased usage, & operating it more efficiently to reduce costs.
They can do both themselves, by increasing the frequency & using the 230s, but that only gets you so far.
I could see Wrexham Central closing, & the 2minutes each way from General used at the other end to get to Birkenhead North. (any funds raised from land sales should be re-invested in improvements to the line)

To go any further will need an even more increased frequency, better connection into Liverpool, & probably more stations. The new 777s would enable all of those. Which means transferring the service to Merseyrail. TfW would likely still have to subsidise some of the service, but at a much lower rate than now.
The 777s would need electrification. Bidston - Liverpool is easy, as it already exists, or should be allowed if extra track needs putting in Bidston-Bhead North. As it's a self-contained line, it must be possible to do it cheaper than NR mainline costs.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
When the frequency is doubled to every 30 minutes from every 60 minutes in the future, I would like to see improved connections at Shotton.

For example, the Liverpool Lime Street - Llandudno via Halton Curve, and Manchester Piccadilly - Bangor (Gwynedd)/Caernarfon to have a combined frequency of every 30 minutes along the common section between Chester and Llandudno Junction, with interchanging passengers at Shotton between the lines having no more than a 15 minute wait.

The present 5/55 or thereabouts interchange at Shotton does not encourage people to leave cars at home and use public transport.
 

edwin_m

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There are four possible connections at Shotton, each of which provides the shortest link for some journeys, and for a connection to be useful it has to be workable in both directions. There should be better connections by the simple fact of there being more trains, but with the many other constraints on the timetable (interactions at Chester, short turnarounds at Wrexham and Bidston) it would be difficult to provide many "intentional" timed connections.
 

8H

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Perhaps it is time for the RailUK Male Voice Choir to sing a stirring rendition of Maw hen wlad fy nhadau.

They could sing that from Wrecsam far as Burton point and then Jerusalem all the way to Bidston :lol:
 

sw1ller

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I just heard the back end of a conversation this morning about it. Driver instructor and manager going over the line on a test and ALL the 230s ordered will be on this line only.

Nothing is set in stone obviously but the people talking know a hell of a lot more than me about it.

That’s all I know (and I’m using the word “know” loosely!!)
 

8H

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I just heard the back end of a conversation this morning about it. Driver instructor and manager going over the line on a test and ALL the 230s ordered will be on this line only.

Nothing is set in stone obviously but the people talking know a hell of a lot more than me about it.

That’s all I know (and I’m using the word “know” loosely!!)

Thanks for the “gossip” really intriguing !!
 

8H

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I did say make of it what you will.

I have already made it plans for quadruple power sources and end exit doors with through services onto the Liverpool loop and back via Wrexham and Chester and Rock Ferry :D exaggeration being a local characteristic !!
 

M28361M

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I believe on at least one occasion during the Arriva era, a unit was stabled at Birkenhead North overnight to enable an additional earlier service to run one Sunday morning from Bidston, I think in conjunction with some special event in the area.

Thinking about it, would it make sense for there to be some arrangement between TFW and Merseyrail/Stadler to stable or even maintain the 230s at Birkenhead North depot? As I understand it, heavy maintenance of the new 777 units will be done at Kirkdale, so maybe there would be spare capacity at Birkenhead from next year? If the 230s are to be confined to the Bidston-Wrexham line only, it would make sense to have maintenance facilities somewhere on the route.
 

krus_aragon

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I believe on at least one occasion during the Arriva era, a unit was stabled at Birkenhead North overnight to enable an additional earlier service to run one Sunday morning from Bidston, I think in conjunction with some special event in the area.

Thinking about it, would it make sense for there to be some arrangement between TFW and Merseyrail/Stadler to stable or even maintain the 230s at Birkenhead North depot? As I understand it, heavy maintenance of the new 777 units will be done at Kirkdale, so maybe there would be spare capacity at Birkenhead from next year? If the 230s are to be confined to the Bidston-Wrexham line only, it would make sense to have maintenance facilities somewhere on the route.
There's already some stabling space at Wrexham, in the bay platforms that WSMR used to store their stock.

I'm unsure what advantage there'd be in stabling TfW stock at Birkenhead if they have no train staff based there.
 

8H

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Just 47 minutes from Birkenhead North depot to Wrexham General (pass) for the ecs including 2 mins stood at Bidston compared to a typical 65 minutes passenger trip from North station with a good connection at Bidston and onto the all stations stopping service to Wrexham. Any room for future improvements ?
 

krus_aragon

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Just 47 minutes from Birkenhead North depot to Wrexham General (pass) for the ecs including 2 mins stood at Bidston compared to a typical 65 minutes passenger trip from North station with a good connection at Bidston and onto the all stations stopping service to Wrexham. Any room for future improvements ?
EMU-like acceleration with the Class-230 (1m p/s/s up to 40 miles per hour per this press release) will help reduce the time penalty for stopping, provided that the door release is quick too. (That's not currently the case with the Marston Vale units.)
 

Bletchleyite

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"Marston Vale mafia"
EMU-like acceleration with the Class-230 (1m p/s/s up to 40 miles per hour per this press release) will help reduce the time penalty for stopping, provided that the door release is quick too. (That's not currently the case with the Marston Vale units.)

Interesting that nothing is seemingly being done about that. I suspect this is because they can largely keep time because the acceleration offsets the door slowness.

Really, for proper gain, you need doors as quick as a bus.
 

Mutant Lemming

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They do seem to have settled down a bit more on the Marston Vale and we are hearing about far fewer problems. For instance I just looked and so far there have been no delays or cancellations today. Perhaps the lessons with those ones will reduce any issues with the Welsh ones?

I'd imagine the Hamilton Square layout would cause issues with no end doors for the James St idea, thinking on (the outbound trains towards Bidston go via a single bore tunnel), so Birkenhead North is probably as far as they could go - the DMUs did at one point, didn't they?

The problem with Birkenhead North is blocking the road while tipping out and reversing. The Sunday service used to operate from Wrexham to New Brighton which could have provided a better means of reversing the service without obstructing the through road but the Bidston curve was removed back in the 80s.
 

notlob.divad

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Interestingly those paths do not include Birkenhead North station itself, just between the depot and Bidston. or me that would imply this:
I believe on at least one occasion during the Arriva era, a unit was stabled at Birkenhead North overnight to enable an additional earlier service to run one Sunday morning from Bidston, I think in conjunction with some special event in the area.

Thinking about it, would it make sense for there to be some arrangement between TFW and Merseyrail/Stadler to stable or even maintain the 230s at Birkenhead North depot? As I understand it, heavy maintenance of the new 777 units will be done at Kirkdale, so maybe there would be spare capacity at Birkenhead from next year? If the 230s are to be confined to the Bidston-Wrexham line only, it would make sense to have maintenance facilities somewhere on the route.

Rather than implying a potential future passenger service.
 

headshot119

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The problem with Birkenhead North is blocking the road while tipping out and reversing. The Sunday service used to operate from Wrexham to New Brighton which could have provided a better means of reversing the service without obstructing the through road but the Bidston curve was removed back in the 80s.

Remember there's the extra platform at Birkenhead North, you could tip out in there, then follow behind the next EMU and reverse. Probably achievable though it may need a bit of a timetable rethink.

Interestingly those paths do not include Birkenhead North station itself, just between the depot and Bidston. or me that would imply this:


Rather than implying a potential future passenger service.

I do wonder what the point of it all is. I'm fairly sure I read back when TFW took over that the units would be maintained in the bay sidings at Wrexham, given that the WAG pumped money into it back in the WSMR days. Plus it would create jobs in Wales.
 

VT 390

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Remember there's the extra platform at Birkenhead North, you could tip out in there, then follow behind the next EMU and reverse. Probably achievable though it may need a bit of a timetable rethink.
If it is not going to be extended all the way in to Liverpool what is the point of extending it past Bidston as connections are already available there and by extending it to Birkenhead it is more likely to cause delays to the Merseyrail network.
 
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