Future public health policy when the COVID is over

[lxfe_mxtterz]

At risk of dragging the thread slightly off topic, a naive question from someone who's never ridden a horse in their life. Do you find it particularly tiring to do?
My assumption has always been that the horse does most of the work, but that's probably wrong come to think of it.

I should point out that my aim here is not to discount it as a means of exercise.

Ahaha, heard that assumption way too many times - the horse certainly does not do all the work. I'd say it's a nice balance between horse and rider.

When you're riding, you're constantly telling the horse what you want it to do, through means of your hands, your legs and shifting your weight in the saddle.

As for whether I find it tiring, it really depends on what I'm doing. If I'm trotting, I'll find it a lot more tiring than if I'm walking. Posting a trot requires you to continually rise up out of the saddle and back down in rhythm with the strides of the horse (typically every few seconds). Think of it as doing squats, all whilst balancing on a 500 kg animal.

Really, you need to experience it to know what it feels like. You'd probably struggle walking for the next couple of days (it really does work the legs), but it's great fun!

 

[duncanp]

I think it should be perfectly safe to open swimming pools and allow pre booked swims to reduce numbers in the water. The pool water kills germs so COVID shouldn't be a problem.
It's the best excercise for both young and old.

Hear, hear.

This is what my local swimming pool did when it reopened after the first lockdown.

You have to prebook a session on the website, and there is a maximum of 30 people in the pool at any one time.

There were a few rules about lane swimming, such as keep your distance from the person in front, and no overtaking in the middle of a lane.

This made for a more pleasant experience overall, rather than having to cope with the person who thinks they own a particular lane of the pool, and everyone else has to get out of their way.

There was also plenty of hand sanitiser for people to use.

The only thing that I didn't like was having to come "swim ready", and not being allowed to use the changing rooms until after your swim.

So with a few sensible rules, the risk was very small, and I can't see why they have been closed now, other than the government being seen to so something.

 

[Scotrail12]

Going back to the UK: the good thing which should hopefully fight against obesity is that apparently junk and unhealthy food will be banned for sale in supermarkets from next year.

EDIT - That's not what the articles are saying, they'll be banned from being on display at checkouts so people just won't make spontaneous purchases when unnecessary. Those who still want junk will still go to the junk aisle and buy it.

 

[Class 317]

For me a focus would be on prevention rather than cures. Prevention nearly always being more cost effective than cures whilst improving people's health and well being.

For example the health of the elderly could be improved by providing free vitamin supplements. The Swiss recommend vitamin D, C and Zinc supplements to all over 65,s which I believe are provided free of charge. This combination is surprised to boost immune protection to respiratory infections and was aimed at reducing Flu levels. My partner's Swiss parents have received these each winter for a number of years now.

Another focus would be promotion of exercise which helps reduce the risk of developing so many conditions. One way to do this could be via subsidising gym memberships, swimming, team sports, walk for health groups etc. Yes this would come at a reasonable cost but the savings to the NHS would I'd imagine be larger.

Mental health would also be a focus as apart from the direct phycological effects on people it can also lead to many other health effects for example poor diets, not exercising and develop into drink or drug problems.

 

[py_megapixel]

@bramling, @lxfe_mxtterz, @NorthOxonian, @Mojo and @takno - I thought I'd just chime in on the school PE discussion.

My school didn't allow any choice of activity whatsoever. There was a rotation, so one term you'd be doing football, the next basketball, then cricket etc.
One of the options was something called "Health Related Exercise" (which was essentially exercising on gym equipment), but apart from that, every other option was a competitive sport. And largely, for me at least, it was hell, because people became over competitive and I found it hard to cope with people shouting at me from all angles (usually about what I'd done wrong, unfortunately - but I just couldn't get my head around what the *right* thing to do was!).

Also, whenever they were short staffed they essentially shoved the entire year group out onto the playing fields to play football. This was even more awful, because not only did this make at least a third of the cohort unhappy, they also ignored the ability sets and just put everyone into random teams. This led to a situation where those who were less able in football were essentially bullied by those who were more able. This in turn resulted in this section of the cohort retreating to the back of the pitch and doing nothing, rendering the attempt to get us to exercise ineffective.

I was one of those who stood at the back of the pitch and did nothing. I didn't feel at all guilty about it, because I have always pursued other means of exercise, so I didn't feel I was impacting my health at all by not participating. I was probably benefiting my mental health, now I think about it.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if people are put off from exercise now because of a hatred of school PE several years ago.

 

[Ken H]

I am lucky, I live in the hills so can disappear for hours at a time wandering the fells.

But when I was working away i did little things. Not parking as close to work/hotel doors as possible, but to park a bit away and walk across the car park. Not using the lift, and things like that. Its too easy to control your life so you never walk more than a few steps. In the summer evenings I would walk some distances just to keep moving. More difficult in winter, however.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

EDIT - That's not what the articles are saying, they'll be banned from being on display at checkouts so people just won't make spontaneous purchases when unnecessary. Those who still want junk will still go to the junk aisle and buy it.

Well, that's still a step forward though. This should hopefully begin the quest to end obesity in the UK.

 

[Envy123]

Not answering your question directly but the culture in this country to healthy lifestyle is terrible.
Lunchtime at work: other countries I've worked in, people take their lunch to work in tupperware. Here it's out to pret, eat, m&s, itsu, boots for prepacked food.

Noticed this too. My coworkers always ended up envious of the homecooked food I brought in - except for one workplace where you had no choice but to bring some food in (as the nearest food place was 2 miles away!).

And my lunches were never gourmet - they were copycats of US chain food.

 

[DustyBin]

I would thoroughly recommend boxing as a means to improve both physical and mental health. Even if you aren’t interested in getting in the ring with another person (we’re a minority!) most gyms offer ‘boxercise’ type classes. As long as it’s a proper boxing gym you’ll get the experience and benefit of the basic training. The training is extremely hard but everybody has to start somewhere so don’t let that put you off. Also a lot of boxing gyms are in relatively deprived areas so membership and/or classes are very affordable.

 

[6862]

Going back to the UK: the good thing which should hopefully fight against obesity is that apparently junk and unhealthy food will be banned for sale in supermarkets from next year.

I wasn't aware of this, although from other posters' comments it seems like it won't be a total ban. However, I would be very annoyed if it were a total ban. I agree that we need to be more healthy, but I like to be able to buy a pizza from a supermarket every now and again, or perhaps some oven chips. Such a ban would be the nanny state going into total overdrive (although I would argue it's already in overdrive with Covid). So I'm glad that it sounds like it won't be a total ban.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I wasn't aware of this, although from other posters' comments it seems like it won't be a total ban. However, I would be very annoyed if it were a total ban. I agree that we need to be more healthy, but I like to be able to buy a pizza from a supermarket every now and again, or perhaps some oven chips. Such a ban would be the nanny state going into total overdrive (although I would argue it's already in overdrive with Covid). So I'm glad that it sounds like it won't be a total ban.

Don't worry, from my understanding it won't be stuff like pizza etc. I believe it will be products with too much sugar.

 

[Hadders]

I wonder what exactly constitutes junk food, and how you actually ban it?

Chocolate biscuits
Crisps
Ice cream
Chocolate bars
Pizza
Cheese
Breakfast cereals

I doubt supermarkets are going to be banned from selling these products. What I could see happening is legislation to force manufacturers to reduce the sugar, salt and fat content in these products. Of course it sounds better in the media if they say that they are going 'ban supermarkets from...' when in fact that isn't quite correct.

 

[ExRes]

I don't believe it's true at all but can you imagine banning the sale of 'junk food' from supermarkets without banning it from restaurants and takeaways as well? that would do the unemployment figures a power of good and leave tens of thousands more sitting at home without anything to do, very effective indeed

 

[RuralRambler]

@bramling, @lxfe_mxtterz, @NorthOxonian, @Mojo and @takno - I thought I'd just chime in on the school PE discussion.

My school didn't allow any choice of activity whatsoever. There was a rotation, so one term you'd be doing football, the next basketball, then cricket etc.
One of the options was something called "Health Related Exercise" (which was essentially exercising on gym equipment), but apart from that, every other option was a competitive sport. And largely, for me at least, it was hell, because people became over competitive and I found it hard to cope with people shouting at me from all angles (usually about what I'd done wrong, unfortunately - but I just couldn't get my head around what the *right* thing to do was!).

Also, whenever they were short staffed they essentially shoved the entire year group out onto the playing fields to play football. This was even more awful, because not only did this make at least a third of the cohort unhappy, they also ignored the ability sets and just put everyone into random teams. This led to a situation where those who were less able in football were essentially bullied by those who were more able. This in turn resulted in this section of the cohort retreating to the back of the pitch and doing nothing, rendering the attempt to get us to exercise ineffective.

I was one of those who stood at the back of the pitch and did nothing. I didn't feel at all guilty about it, because I have always pursued other means of exercise, so I didn't feel I was impacting my health at all by not participating. I was probably benefiting my mental health, now I think about it.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if people are put off from exercise now because of a hatred of school PE several years ago.

Fully agree with all of that. It took many years after leaving school before I got into exercise (skiing, squash, walking, cycling, golf, tennis, etc). School PE/Games ruined it for me as, like you say, the sporty ones bullied the less sporty, and that also spilled over into other lessons. I'd far rather see far more emphasis on choice and far more "lone" sports/exercise such as gyms etc. Far too much emphasis on using sports to encourage "team work" - that only works for the sporty kids and alienates the non sporty ones who grow to hate all kinds of team work.

 

[takno]

Far too much emphasis on using sports to encourage "team work" - that only works for the sporty kids and alienates the non sporty ones who grow to hate all kinds of team work.

This applies equally to academic work. Lots of people hate doing maths, and trying to do group assignments there engenders a hatred of teamwork for others.

Some schools teach PE well, and some teach it badly. We had one teacher who was only really in it for the rugby but was sympathetic to skivers, and one who made it impossible to avoid taking part but then made a point of actually teaching people how to do stuff and making sure that teams actually worked together.

I don't think it's the team sports that are the problem, it's the teachers that won't put together any variety, and the ones that don't teach you what you are doing and why

 

[py_megapixel]

I don't think it's the team sports that are the problem, it's the teachers that won't put together any variety, and the ones that don't teach you what you are doing and why

There is a fundamental issue with the team sports, which is that not everyone starts on a level playing-field (no pun intended).
The children who took interest in football at a very young age, for example, are going to be rather good at it by the time they get to secondary age (which seems to be what we're talking about at the moment). Those are, in my experience, the ones who go on to bully the ones, such as myself, who don't really care about football at all.

This is why, in PE, ability sets are essential in my opinion.

 

[Yew]

Another focus would be promotion of exercise which helps reduce the risk of developing so many conditions. One way to do this could be via subsidising gym memberships, swimming, team sports, walk for health groups etc. Yes this would come at a reasonable cost but the savings to the NHS would I'd imagine be larger.

Personally, I'd like to examine the idea of school PE lessons; moving them to focus on 'finding out which physical recreation you enjoy' rather than the more regimented Rubgy. Football and Cricket. Perhaps teaming up with outdoor centres and local teams for climbing, kayaking etc.

 

[RuralRambler]

There is a fundamental issue with the team sports, which is that not everyone starts on a level playing-field (no pun intended).
The children who took interest in football at a very young age, for example, are going to be rather good at it by the time they get to secondary age (which seems to be what we're talking about at the moment).

This is why, in PE, ability sets are essential in my opinion.

I agree, but the same applies to other subjects too, such as music, where you have a class, half of which play an instrument as taught at primary school, can read music, etc., and the other half who've not. Not sure how anyone can teach that successfully really. Same with art, cookery, woodwork, etc. Basically, everything that's in the secondary school curriculum but not in the primary school one. I've long advocated the "module" approach for secondary schools (based on the Uni system), where pupils can choose different "levels" according to their ability and prior experience, rather than throwing them all in together. I.e. if you already play football, then you go into a higher module, whereas beginners go into the beginners module, same with art, music, etc etc. Would work far better than the "year" group system to group pupils by ability rather than age.

 

[Mintona]

If you can run 12 miles you are in much better shape than many people! You can be well built and still be healthy!

Although I will happily play football for 3 hours and keep on running (I was most annoyed at having to stop after only 2 ¼ hours on the day of the lockdown 3 announcement) , I simply cannot get the motivation to go for a run for anything close to 12 miles!

Yeah I run a lot but I also like a pizza. I like to think they counterbalance each other.

 

[greyman42]

For example: I've come to the conclusion that running simply isn't my thing. I've tried to take it up several times now, and always found it quite unsatisfying and tedious and just not enjoyed it at all.

The problem with running is that it is not easy and many people give up before they can appreciate the benefits. You have to stick at for a couple of months before you really start to enjoy it and then it can become quite addictive. It is also a good way to keep the weight off, without having to bother to much about your diet. And it is also a very cheap way to keep fit.

 

[takno]

The problem with running is that it is not easy and many people give up before they can appreciate the benefits. You have to stick at for a couple of months before you really start to enjoy it and then it can become quite addictive. It is also a good way to keep the weight off, without having to bother to much about your diet. And it is also a very cheap way to keep fit.

You can achieve most of the benefits from a decent long and fast walk, without all of the ghastly sweating. Doesn't quite remove as many calories, but I find it's slightly more effective at removing the food urges. It's also easier to integrate with your daily life in normal times, because you can use it as a way of going to places without needing a shower when you arrive.

 

[greyman42]

I wonder what exactly constitutes junk food, and how you actually ban it?

Chocolate biscuits
Crisps
Ice cream
Chocolate bars
Pizza
Cheese
Breakfast cereals

I doubt supermarkets are going to be banned from selling these products. What I could see happening is legislation to force manufacturers to reduce the sugar, salt and fat content in these products. Of course it sounds better in the media if they say that they are going 'ban supermarkets from...' when in fact that isn't quite correct.

The multi nationals are already spending millions in R and D facilities producing healthier versions of their popular products. A good example of this is the confectionary sector.

 

[Cdd89]

The multi nationals are already spending millions in R and D facilities producing healthier versions of their popular products. A good example of this is the confectionary sector.

Indeed. It’s happened really subtly but if you go to a country (or just the World Food aisle!) where that hasn’t happened, you realise how full of rubbish their confectionary is.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Noticed this too. My coworkers always ended up envious of the homecooked food I brought in - except for one workplace where you had no choice but to bring some food in (as the nearest food place was 2 miles away!).

And my lunches were never gourmet - they were copycats of US chain food.

Exactly. When I lived in Canada most people did this. People never brought in sandwiches, it was always hot food

The problem with running is that it is not easy and many people give up before they can appreciate the benefits. You have to stick at for a couple of months before you really start to enjoy it and then it can become quite addictive. It is also a good way to keep the weight off, without having to bother to much about your diet. And it is also a very cheap way to keep fit.

I found the best way to start running is via parkrun whereby you have different abilities and its sociable and fun.
I

 

[yorkie]

Most people drive in the UK? Ok some do but I wouldn't say that there is car dependency compared to the likes of the USA.

Very much depends on where you are in the UK!

But we have far too many people who are car dependent; it's not a healthy situation. I can't see it changing though.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Very much depends on where you are in the UK!

But we have far too many people who are car dependent; it's not a healthy situation. I can't see it changing though.

I live in Horsham, West Sussex, which is located in the South East of England. Here, we are only about an hour by train from London and many people commute on trains to go to London. Even for non-London journeys the trains (my local TOCs are Southern and Thameslink) seem to be popular! I just think, at least where I live, that the trains tend to be used more than the buses. Although people do drive too!

I agree with you that car dependency is not healthy and more should be done to encourage people to walk, cycle or use public transport. Although I still think public transport in the UK is one of the best in Europe, alongside Germany, the Netherlands and maybe Sweden!

 

[yorkie]

Although I still think public transport in the UK is one of the best in Europe, alongside Germany, the Netherlands and maybe Sweden!

Again it depends where you are, but - long distance high speed services excepted in some cases - I'd say all the others, along with Switzerland, beat the UK, based on my visits.

 

[cactustwirly]

And not just the UK. Another European country, Italy, to me, is also fairly car dependent too. And for them it's worse than in the UK because public transport, apart from a few school buses, in the majority of Italian rural areas is completely non existent. Like in the majority of the wealthier suburbs in the USA, you have no choice but to drive.

Ok Italy isn't as bad as the USA in car dependency but I still find them worse than the UK, and this coming from somebody who is partially Italian who has family who lives there.

As for the UK, even then, many rural areas do have enough bus services. The only rural areas with no public transport whatsoever in the UK tend to be small villages with populations of about 50 to 200.

Buses are well used in the UK too, but mostly by the young and the elderly.

That wasn't the case when I was in Italy.
I was staying on a rural campsite, there was a bus 5 times a day into the nearest towns. The fares were very reasonable as well.

I thought the Italian trains were decent tbh, a lot better than the French!
Not quite the Germanic clockface timetables, but frequent enough, with modern coaches.

 

[HSTEd]

A five bus per day bus is almost useless for real life unless you are a tourist or a pensioner.

Four hourly or bust.

 

[35B]

Personally, I'd like to examine the idea of school PE lessons; moving them to focus on 'finding out which physical recreation you enjoy' rather than the more regimented Rubgy. Football and Cricket. Perhaps teaming up with outdoor centres and local teams for climbing, kayaking etc.

Good luck fitting that into the average, already overcrowded, school timetable!

I agree, but the same applies to other subjects too, such as music, where you have a class, half of which play an instrument as taught at primary school, can read music, etc., and the other half who've not. Not sure how anyone can teach that successfully really. Same with art, cookery, woodwork, etc. Basically, everything that's in the secondary school curriculum but not in the primary school one. I've long advocated the "module" approach for secondary schools (based on the Uni system), where pupils can choose different "levels" according to their ability and prior experience, rather than throwing them all in together. I.e. if you already play football, then you go into a higher module, whereas beginners go into the beginners module, same with art, music, etc etc. Would work far better than the "year" group system to group pupils by ability rather than age.

My kids’ schools deal with that by teaching subjects at a foundation level in year 7, and then building up a curriculum; it actually disadvantages those who have a level of knowledge already as they are brought down to absolute beginner level.

Mixing age groups would cause serious timetabling issues with small departments, as well as raising safety concerns on contact sports where different age groups are at significantly different levels of development.