Future use for LO 172s

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by adrock1976, 22 May 2015.

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  1. adrock1976

    adrock1976 Established Member

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    Apologies if there is another thread on a similar topic.

    A thought came into my mind regarding when the Gospel Oak - Barking line is eventually wired up.

    The 8 172s could perhaps be transferred to Canton Depot, Cardiff for use on the Bay shuttle and the Coryton - Radyr via Ninian Park services. One single unit to be used on the Bay shuttle, with the three diagrams for the Coryton - Radyr being coupled up, which would leave one unit spare.

    I believe Canton Depot already has experience of the XC 170s, which are similar units. Furthermore, as the LO 172s are most likely geared for low speed use with stations every 2 or 3 minutes apart, with Gospel Oak - Barking being a roughly half hour short run similar to Coryton - Radyr, this would be a handy place initially for the LO 172s to be cascaded to until the Valley Lines network receives wires.

    After when the Valley Lines network is wired, perhaps the LO 172s could then be transferred to either Laira, Plymouth or Long Rock, Penzance. One unit could operate the St Ives branch, two for Truro - Falmouth, and one for Liskeard - Looe. This would give some flexibility of these routes to operate with units coupled up when need be, although if all the above three services were coupled up, this would mean that all 8 units are in use during the day with none spare.

    Any other thoughts as regarding suitable locations and routes for the LO 172s to be transferred to?

    In peace

    Adam
     
  2. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    I think Chiltern have first call on them?
     
  3. FordFocus

    FordFocus Member

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  4. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    Indeed. They will almost certainly go to chiltern to work with the sister class 172/1s. By this point, they will have also received the TPE 170s which should allow longer trains/replacement of LHCS.

    By transferring to chiltern, the fitters and maintenance people have all got experience, the drivers are already trained on them, and they are interoperable with the stock there.

    Transferring to ATW would mean doing official training for the fitter and maintenance people, as well as driver training for what would be a bit of a micro-fleet
     
  5. SprinterMan

    SprinterMan Established Member

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    LHCS replacement? The amount of money CH have poured into the Silver trains makes their withdrawal extremely unlikely. I can see us losing the Banbury commuter rake in the next few years though :(

    Adam :D
     
  6. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I've looked at riding that, but it strikes me that while it's called the Banbury commuter train, it arrives at London far too late to be a commuter train - certainly a 9am start in the City would be impossible.
     
  7. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    Interestingly - Although Chiltern does carry out some maintenance on them, LOROL seem to carry out a fair bit of it too at Willesden.

    Can't see them replacing LHCS, but maybe moving on to someone like London Midland, with the Chiltern ones, if any of FGWs Turbos become available or electrification on the Chiltern.
     
  8. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

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    You don't need 2 Cars on the Cardiff Bay which is due for electrification anyway. As it is only a small fleet involved, they would probably go to Chiltern. Although LO had the 8, small fleets are not normally sent on their own to another Depot.
     
  9. route:oxford

    route:oxford Established Member

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    I suspect that would only be for a short period whilst they had power-doors installed.
     
  10. Robbies

    Robbies Established Member

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    I think that there is one thing that everyone is over looking. I think they will go to Chiltern, but be used for the service between Bedford, Milton Keynes and Oxford. I do not think that any of the LHCS services will be replaced with multiple unit stock.
     
  11. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Are they really being so short-sighted as to build East West Rail without wires from day one? Silly, IMO.
     
  12. Robbies

    Robbies Established Member

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    Any videos for East West Rail show overhead electrification, however I have not seen that in any details for the route so I will stand corrected, but I believe the route is being built with the ability to put the wires in later, but will initially be run with DMU's.
     
  13. adrock1976

    adrock1976 Established Member

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    I would be slightly concerned if they ended up on the East - West route as the journey time as it presently stands between Bletchley and Bedford Midland is around 45 - 50 minutes straight away, and also remember that there are no toilets fitted on board the LO 172s. This in my view would rule out long distance regional runs of more than an hour.

    Regarding the possibility of Chiltern having the 172s, they could be used for the long - awaited Ruislip metro services, and just be kept to that and nothing else, depending if 8 units are enough to do so.

    Furthermore, another place that has come into my mind is Nottingham, as the crew and depot staff already know the 170s. They could be used on the Nottingham - Mansfield Woodhouse/Worksop route and nothing else, as I believe if I've worked it out right, 3 diagrams are used, meaning that the units could be coupled up and leave 2 spare at the depot. I would not send them any further north than the Midlands, as with the exception of the TPE Hull route, there are no other places north where they would be handy for short hop runs where the depot staff and traincrew already know similar classes to the 172s.

    In peace

    Adam
     
  14. HLE 13

    HLE 13 Established Member

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    Probably be a safe bet they end up on the Chilterns to increase capacity, that said by 2040 I expect Chiltern or their successor to have a all electric fleet.
     
  15. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Perhaps more likely the extra stock needed to extend the Aylesbury to High Wycombe trains to MK, as these use the Chiltern line "proper" which has no plans for electrification. They would probably be retro-fitted with toilets, which should be possible as the 172s in the Midlands have them.
     
  16. Kite159

    Kite159 Established Member

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    Retrofit the units with loos (I would imagine there is space underneath to put a tank), then they could be used along with the 4 Chiltern 172/1s on the Chiltern main line services.

    Keep the fleet together, unless London Midland wants them to get rid of their remaining sprinters
     
  17. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    A retrofit shouldn't be too challenging bearing in mind the modular rolling stock design concept.

    Should be taken care of by EWR and Coventry-Nuneaton enhancement. In fact, this might be where some of the demand for the additional DMUs will stem from.
     
  18. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Chiltern would seem the obvious place for them. However, coupled with the 9 TPE units which are also 2-car, leaves Chiltern with a surfeit of driving cars. The speculation on this forum suggests that Chiltern will create a uniform fleet of 3-car 168s, with one spare centre car (which could go to CrossCountry). If the 172s come in it might make the diagrams more complicated, even if toilets are fitted.

    They could help to boost capacity (or frequency, paths permitting) on the admittedly small inner(ish)-suburban sector of the Chiltern line. In the past this line (and stations thereon) has seemed the 'Cinderella' of London's rail network. It's not my area so I have no idea if this has improved with the Gerrards Cross services, etc..
     
  19. Old Hill Bank

    Old Hill Bank Member

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    Fit them with loos and send them to LM along with the four from Chiltern. LM release the 153s and Chiltern take more Scotrail 170s. That removes some microfleets.
     
  20. mr_jrt

    mr_jrt Member

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    ...there's also Southern to consider. They have the Marshlink and Uckfield lines, and have just received 4x3-car 170s from Scotrail to lengthen the Uckfield services to 10-cars.

    If Southern got (the bulk of?) the 172s to use on Marshlink then they could move all their 171s to the Uckfield service...

    ...but have to say, Chiltern getting them for the proposed High Wycombe-West Ealing service seems the most likely.
     
  21. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Northern bidders are allowed to propose use of any 15xs and 17xs which will be released by their current operators. That includes the following:
    * All of the FGW 150/1s and 153s
    * Some of the Scotrail 156s, 158s and 170s
    * All of the LO 172s

    Conversely TPE bidders aren't allowed to propose using any of the above.
     
  22. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Is that to supplement or replace the Greenford shuttle?
     
  23. FordFocus

    FordFocus Member

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    Where was that proposed out of interest?
     
  24. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    London Infrastructure Plan 2050: Transport Supporting Paper
    table of NR good ideas on page 147:

     
  25. Haydn1971

    Haydn1971 Established Member

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    Split them to two and three car units, run them on TPE North with most passengers standing ;) haha
     
  26. David Goddard

    David Goddard Established Member

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    OK, for what its worth from me:
    LOROL eight move to Southern so the four Scottish 170s can return North.
    Transpennine nine move to Anglia to enable the like number of 156s to go to Northern.
    Chiltern over time to receive more Mk3s to enable the whole Birmingham operation to be so formed, releasing 168s for Oxford and Stratford trains.
     
  27. FordFocus

    FordFocus Member

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    Thanks :)
     
  28. starlightEXPRESS

    starlightEXPRESS Member

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    Is Old Oak Common the new Marylebone? ;)
     
  29. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    with the Greenford branch being cut back to West Ealing, if Chiltern were running a service from High Wycombe would it then make sense for them to take responsibility for the branch shuttle (seeing as TfL don't seem to want it) using the expanded 172 fleet?
     
  30. 387star

    387star Established Member

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    At one point chiltern seemed to want rid of all turbostars in favour of locos not the case anymore? Corridor connections would surely be handy unless they chop units up to lengthen on yeah not really possible as they are only two coaches with a non gangway driving cab each end
     
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