Future use of Class 332s post-HEx

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by jayiscupid, 29 Mar 2018.

  1. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    I think because their futuristic appearance, relatively high spec interior and the fact that Heathrow Express was a completely new concept when they were first introduced makes them seem a lot newer than they actually are. As it stands they are being withdrawn well before due and at least two thirds of the 365s are still in service for a fair while longer.
     
  2. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    I know a lovely home for them. CF Booth Ltd, with spares recovery for 333s.
     
  3. 317 forever

    317 forever Member

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    The numbering of classes of trains is a bit all over the place. We have 331s due to enter service around the time that 332s are withdrawn.
     
  4. hibtastic

    hibtastic Member

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    Just sat on one of these just now. It blows my mind that they will soon have no home. They are lovely trains.
     
  5. Jonny

    Jonny Established Member

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    Or maybe barstewardisation of them to make some to make longer 333s, a 6 car versioin equivalent to 2x3 car perhaps but with only the current 333 cab ends, and the remainder to Booth's (other scrapyards are available ;) )
     
  6. Dave91131

    Dave91131 Member

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    Purely from a numerical point of view in terms of the number of vehicles the following would be possible, which would give a fleet of 21 x 5-car 333's:

    All 16 non-driving vehicles are removed from 4-car 332001-004 and 010-013 and refurbished, with the current fleet of 333001-016 each receiving 1.

    5-car 332005-009 remain in their current formations, are refurbished and become 333017-021.

    All driving cars from 332001-004 and 010-013, as well as all 4 vehicles from the long-demic 332014 are sent to the rolling stock graveyard.

    Obviously won't happen due to a million and one other reasons, but would have worked numerically.

    Cheers.
     
  7. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Except the non-driving cars aren't homogeneous. Some have pantographs and transformers, others are just trailers. Removing the electrical equipment wouldn't be cheap even if the vehicles weren't worn out.

    Besides 5-car units would be a nightmare for Northern. They'd still need several platforms extending to run singly, but with no possibility of doubling up in the peaks.
     
  8. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

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    Just a thought do the 5 car sets have 2 trailers? If so the numbers might still work although as you say platforms would definitely need extending. But perhaps such a suggestion would get the work which is badly needed bumped up the priory order? The Aire and Calder line badly need more capacity, housing developments are being thrown up all along these routes and the pressure on the existing services will grow rapidly.
     
  9. modernrail

    modernrail Member

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    Personally, I think there has been a good case for 6 car as standard on Airedale for a while. They would be carrying a lot less off-peak fresh air than many routes down south.
     
  10. Dave91131

    Dave91131 Member

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    Thanks, all acknowledged valid points.

    I'm sure if there was a will, there would be a way - one only has to look at the 458 / 460 project to see what can be done in terms of stock re-formations / refurbishments, and at numerous suburban stations on various lines out of Waterloo in terms of platform extensions.

    Regards platform lengths, surely selective door opening wouldn't be insurmountable as an alternative or additional option.
     
  11. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    Platforms aren't long enough. That's why you won't be seeing the 3 car 331's for a while.
     
  12. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    Why? The 332s are mechanically in a poor state. I can't see any ROSCo wanting to buy them.
     
  13. Grumpy

    Grumpy Member

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    However not as long as 2*3 car sets but with the same carrying capacity at much less capital and ongoing revenue cost.
     
  14. Rail Blues

    Rail Blues Member

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    Me too, these could be the new HSTs which were the new 442s for a subset of posters here. Either suggest a route they're not suitable for or suggest new service to keep them going.

    I feel their creative talent for rehoming isn't being fully utilised, why not let them run Battersea Cats and Dogs home? They could even rename the animals after their favourite pieces of rolling stock too. Deltic the Gerbil and Mk2 DBSO the labrador would get new homes in no time. There'd not be an animal left in the place.
     
    Last edited: 12 Apr 2019
  15. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Don't forget the Eurostar North of London sets. Many homes suggested for them, especially the GEML
     
  16. 4-SUB 4732

    4-SUB 4732 Member

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    Pretty sure the 5 car services could do Leeds - Skipton. Sectional Appendix suggests local stations are 102m; each unit is 114m so fit SDO and just never open the back door at stations shorter than 114m?
     
  17. JN114

    JN114 Established Member

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    So on top of - buying the units off of Heathrow Airport, conducting a complete mechanical and electrical overhaul; fitting of TPWS; altering the interior to make it more suitable for suburban work; we’re now fitting SDO?! Not to mention losses incurred by Northern who’ve already ordered new Electric stock to enable capacity increase on WY electrics.

    They’re good for nowhere but the scrapyard, perhaps a foreign operator with more money than sense. I don’t think posters here are comprehending how poor a mechanical and electrical state these units are in; nor the costs involved in even making them available to other operators.
     
  18. quantinghome

    quantinghome Member

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    That's the plan, but not with 332s. Recently announced that it will be delayed until 2021 due to need to build more platforms at Leeds. And no platform extensions planned which will cause significant increases in dwell times in the peaks.
     
  19. adc82140

    adc82140 Member

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    My thoughts- strip down, ready source of spares for the 333s, bodyshells scrapped
     
  20. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    But why are they in such a poor mechanical and electrical state?

    Yes they're operated fairly intensely with less down time than some other stock, but they're not old - only 20 years - their interiors had a comprehensive refurb not too long ago so presumably the rest were at least looked at, they operate on a easy route and don't have the more "challenging" customers that say the Networkers have...
     
  21. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    That is also my line of thinking.
     
  22. Beemax

    Beemax Member

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    I guess there’s a bit of a PR issue here. If you’re a Northern news media outlet and you want to cause mischief, why not highlight the issue that, while northern commuters are having to cope with standing-room-only, non-PRM -friendly Pacers, down in the South they’re quite happy to scrap relatively new and (at least superficially) sound and comfortable rolling stock. Technical explanations of non-compatibility for alternative uses won’t necessary cut a lot of ice, and certainly won’t be allowed to spoil a good shock-horror story.
     
  23. JN114

    JN114 Established Member

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    Because the incumbent operator (and current owner) had no guarantees they’d even be running trains after 2023; and existence after 2023 would likely have been dependent on newer, high-performance rolling stock that can keep up with the IETs and 387s on the GWML Mains. And the Heathrow Branch isn’t an “easy” bit of railway - it has some very steep gradients to get under/over/around the various services underneath the airport.

    The refurbishment in the early 2010s was cosmetic only. The mechanicals weren’t touched; as evidenced by not one but 2 whole-fleet stoppages in the past 3 years for significant structural and mechanical defects; one of which lasted nearly 6 weeks if I recall.

    Heathrow Express is a private railway, which makes use of NR metals between Airport Junction and Paddington. It’s outside almost every national railway framework. There’s absolutely no obligation or incentive for them to consider future use of their rolling stock by other operators; and ultimately any bad PR the railway gets out of it won’t bother Heathrow Airport one iota - indeed they may benefit from it! The Airport Car Parks are a much more lucrative source of income for them.
     
  24. JN114

    JN114 Established Member

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    There’s very little commonality; but yes I imagine those spares that can be recovered may well end up with Northern.
     
  25. supervc-10

    supervc-10 Member

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    Between the 333s and 332s? I thought they were fundamentally the same units, just configured differently for the different jobs they do?
     
  26. JN114

    JN114 Established Member

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    333s were based on the 332s, but a lot of improvements were made at the design phase. Think of them like 377s and 387s. Fundamentally similar architecture; but little true commonality once you actually look into it.
     
  27. supervc-10

    supervc-10 Member

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    Huh, the more you know! But if scrapped, I'm sure that Northern would snap up any appropriate spare parts that do fit the 333s.
     
  28. Dave91131

    Dave91131 Member

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    A classic example of a sarcastic and needless response which has the grand total of zero relevance to not only the thread but also the recent posts and discussion contained within said posts - pleasing to see that most members in recent posts have expressed a number of different points of view which have been accepted albeit not necessarily agreed with by others, but there's always one *insert word(s) of choice*.

    Hence why, as another member posted in another thread not that long back, I'm another one who does a lot of perusing but not a lot of posting.

    Last post from me in this or any other thread for a while, I think I'll use the time that I would have spent posting the odd reply / comment here and there engaging in activities with my 11-year old in order to be involved in more grown-up conversations than that which is seemingly possible with the member whose post is quoted above.

    Happy discussing lads (and ladies).
     
  29. Rail Blues

    Rail Blues Member

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    Aw have you taken a huff?

    My post wasn't intended to be sarcastic, but lighthearted, but sorry if it touched a raw nerve with the 'let's invent a pie in the sky use for our favourite piece of rolling stock brigade'.

    Anyway enjoy some time with your 11 year old, i only hope he is more emotionally mature than his father seems to be.
     
  30. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    Some odd replies on this thread.

    Would love to see these units continue in service with someone. The DfT really needs to update and release its rolling stock strategy. These are just one of many classss of unit we know not the future off.
     

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