Gate jumper - staff did nothing

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by OLJR, 20 Apr 2015.

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  1. OLJR

    OLJR Member

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    Yesterday at 4.21pm I was waiting for a friend to arrive at Pimlico station.

    A chap came up from the trains, jumped over the barrier and left the station. The member of staff on duty did nothing.

    What is TfL policy for events like this?
     
  2. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    I'm sure it'll be in one of the books published online somewhere, but what would you expect them to do? It's down to the police or licenced security to physically intervene.
     
  3. transportphoto

    transportphoto Established Member Quizmaster

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    I dare say the training surrounds conflict avoidance!

    TP
     
  4. lonogrol

    lonogrol Member

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    No idea what TfL policy is; but staff at L.U. stations (except for those employed in the Travel Information Centres) are employed by London Underground Limited and thus would have to abide by L.U.L. contracts of employment and policies, almost all of which are separate for L.U.L. than for TfL.

    Customer Service Assistants would certainly not block a person from exiting the station upon advise from the workplace violence team and their initial training.
     
  5. Merseysider

    Merseysider Established Member Fares Advisor

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    TfL policy is for staff to rugby tackle all suspicious characters to the ground and make sure no-one escapes ;)

    In all seriousness, a physical confrontation or 'accident' with the gatejumper getting hurt and all the hassle & paperwork that brings, is unlikely to be worth risking one's job for
     
  6. CC 72100

    CC 72100 Established Member

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    If I had a euro every time I saw this in France, I'd be a millionaire by now ;)

    I'd always thought of our UK barriers as considerably stronger in terms of getting round them, but as other posters have said, isn't really much the standard LUL staff member can do.
     
  7. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    The policy would be along the lines of not to challenge them, but hopefully they would log the incident, as if the person regularly does this sort of thing then CCTV evidence and travel patterns may be useful.

    They can't physically stop them. Sadly a forum member lost his job (not LU, but in the London area) for trying to stop a fare evader doing something like this.

    If the policy was to stop them you'd need a lot more staff, and perhaps a police presence.
     
  8. Mag_seven

    Mag_seven Established Member

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    Well if you felt so strongly about it why didn't you do something? - Or would you rather it was the LUL staff member that got assaulted or whatever.

    Hopefully CCTV will identify the individual and the BTP will take action.
     
  9. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    It sounds great to say that staff should stop the gate jumper and apprehend them.

    What if the situation turns ugly (quite likely to happen). A member of staff gets hurt, or even worse gets stabbed or is even killed. These things happen and the staff are absolutely right not to confront people in these circumstances.
     
  10. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    You don't want to apprehend or restrain someone unless it's really necessary.

    How many people here have restrained someone at work?

    I've done it a few times, but only to protect damage to people/property (usually the former), and if done for no good reason you are putting your job at risk. It's not something you ever want to do. That said, if someone is being hurt, then unless I think I'm going to be overpowered, I wouldn't hesitate to step in (I didn't used to, but I'm more assertive now). But it is a last resort.

    In London, I'd be more apprehensive due to the stronger possibility of weapons being carried.
     
  11. muz379

    muz379 Established Member

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    Id expect the staff to report it so that if it is a regular occurrence and there is a pattern the police can arrange to be lying in wait one day .

    But beyond that I would not expect physhical intervention .

    Far too much that can go wrong either the staff member or the fare evader can get hurt . and from a staff perspective if you did physically intervene and try and restrain the person and you caused them any sort of injury you are quite likely to be going to have to face up to the legal repercussions of that alone because the employer is going to quite clearly outline how it has told you not to intervene in that situation and you would be doing something completely against what you have been trained to do .

    Only time I would intervene in any situation whilst at work is if it was obvious someone was going to get seriously hurt and it was safe for me to do so . Did it once in a previous role but there where 4 members of staff there working together to stop a drunk guy battering his partner in a shop I worked in .
     
    Last edited: 21 Apr 2015
  12. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    This appears to be playing with semantics. LUL is part of TfL, so any LUL policy must be a TfL policy.

    It's true there will be other TfL policies for other parts of TfL but anyone asking for TfL policies for Underground staff is clearly looking for the LUL policy.

    Some (and only some) staff in TfL (including LUL) seem to dislike the fact that they are all part of one big organisation - I'm not sure why.
     
  13. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Don't assume nothing was done. Station staff will not generally intervene for safety reasons, however this doesn't mean that details weren't passed to the BTP, or if the person is a known regular user of the station then revenue could arrange to be there with BTP support. This is not uncommon, action will be taken if there is a known problem person who uses a particular location.

    On a more general note, an unfortunate reflection of some of the rubbish our society regrettably carries.
     
  14. Tibbs

    Tibbs Member

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    At Watford High Street the standard response was to shout 'Stop! Come Back!'.

    But then again, you'd have to pay me a lot more than a gateline attendant gets to tackle those yobs, so I have absolutely no problem with it.
     
  15. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Not much staff can do other than report it to the police.

    I saw somebody jump the barriers at East Croydon and there was a police officer outside who stopped him, he did actually have a valid ticket and was just acting the fool:oops:
     
  16. Merseysider

    Merseysider Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Should have Byelaw Nine'd him.
     
  17. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    I think words of advice sufficed
     
  18. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Indeed; to enforce this byelaw in such circumstances would be petty and rather pointless to say the least. "There's bigger fish to fry" I think is the appropriate saying here.

    In my experience, this byelaw is reserved for use when a local troublemaker who gives the staff grief passes through a barrier in an inappropriate manner, but who's (lack of) ticket is not checked at the time, because staff were not present, or were unable to check the ticket.
     
  19. Jonny

    Jonny Established Member

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    Never mind the TfL staff potentially getting themselves hurt unless they've had the training.
     
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