StephenHunter
Established Member
When the Gatwick Express operated Class 73s, what formations did they have and which end was the loco on?
Indeed there was: unit (48)8301 damaged in the Battersea Park collision.I think one 488/3 was lost at some point.
I only recall 5-car (+GLV) sets in winter though.They would have either a 5 car or an 8 car formation consisting of one class 488/2 and one or two class 488/3s.
It seemed fairly random as to whether it would be one length or the other.
That's my understanding as well, certainly the 488s were originally to be all 4-car.I believe the original plan was for the Class 488s to be all four-car sets (TFOLH-TSOL-TSOL-TSOLH) but that was considered too first class heavy, hence the final mix of two -car and three-car sets.
Interesting, I've never come across this treatment, I assumed all vehicles just remained in the GatEx InterCity style livery.Did only one first class carriage receive the secondary yellow stripe at waistband level in place of the white stripe or was it applied to several? I know only one 73 in IC executive livery received the full yellow wrap around ends and wondered if similarly only one Mark II received the yellow stripe treatment as well.
My experience was that eight cars were used in the summer or when reduced to a half hourly service due to planned engineering work.
I once heard a member of staff remark 'oh, they've got the summer sets on'.
I misheard and thought they were referring to the crew, a Mr & Mrs Somerset...
Did only one first class carriage receive the secondary yellow stripe at waistband level in place of the white stripe or was it applied to several? I know only one 73 in IC executive livery received the full yellow wrap around ends and wondered if similarly only one Mark II received the yellow stripe treatment as well.
I do have a video of one and the 73 is on the country end, just before the 460s came in.The loco was at the Gatwick end when setting off from Victoria i.e. it was pulling the formation. From Gatwick to Victoria the 73 was pushing.
Nice. Definitely rare.I do have a video of one and the 73 is on the country end, just before the 460s came in.
Would they need to turn them?As the 73’s were traditionally on the country end , were they periodically turned to even out wear.
well Anglia turned 86’s and 90’ To even out wear.Would they need to turn them?
In theory no need of course. Was it marketing? Cant be as you would think the loco would be at the London end. Or would you? On Euston-Glasgows or KX to Edinburgh were locos at London or country end?Would they need to turn them?
On WCML and ECML push-pull sets the loco was at the country end, the DVT being at the south end (next to First Class which by tradition is at the London end). The exception was the GEML where the loco was at the London end.In theory no need Of course. Was it marketing? Cant be as you would think the loco would be at the London end. Or would you? On EUstinov-Glasgows or KX to Edinburgh were locos at London or country end?
So the DBSO being at the north end was just a coincidence?The GEML case is because the main loco depot, Norwich Crown Point, was south of Norwich station, which is a terminus.
It wasn't that much of a tradition. Until about 1970 and the widespread introduction of air brake stock, main line services were commonly formed of stock with first class mixed along the length of the train, and brake vehicles at both ends, as well as sometimes along the length, particularly if it had multiple portions for different destinations. There were also a lot of Composite vehicles, which had both classes - easier with side corridor compartments.On WCML and ECML push-pull sets the loco was at the country end, the DVT being at the south end (next to First Class which by tradition is at the London end).
Perhaps not widespread then, the LNER as far as I recall, did marshal its expresses from King's Cross with first class at the London end. The Flying Scotsman was formed thus, not sure about the Silver Jubilee.It wasn't that much of a tradition. Until about 1970 and the widespread introduction of air brake stock, main line services were commonly formed of stock with first class mixed along the length of the train, and brake vehicles at both ends, as well as sometimes along the length, particularly if it had multiple portions for different destinations. There were also a lot of Composite vehicles, which had both classes - easier with side corridor compartments.
Baggage vans being at the London end really first came, notably at Victoria from the Continental boat trains, more than 100 years ago, where registered bags were loaded directly from ship to van, and were examined by customs staff on arrival in London. The customs point was by the buffers of the platform, where all passengers would walk past it. When the Kent Coast was electrified the Motor Luggage Vans on boat trains were always marshalled at the London end.
Of course, as shorter EMUs run in multiple have increasingly spread to long distance services, First Class spread along the train has become the common standard again.
Is the GEML particularly curved to one side? I ask as the Glasgow Subway, which is of course like that, doesn't turn its stock as the increased wear to one side works out within 5% of the expected wear during its life span so there's no need.well Anglia turned 86’s and 90’ To even out wear.
Not really.Is the GEML particularly curved to one side?