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GB number plate curiosity

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Bald Rick

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Evening all.

A good chum of mine recently experienced a curious incident, which set my mind thinking, which in turn has led to me discovering - I think - an oddity about GB registration plates (number plates).

As most of you will know, since September 2001 GB number plates have been in the format:

XX nn YYY where

XX is an area code consisting of two letters
nn is an age identifier of 2 numbers
YYY is random letters

In the XX section there are some letters (I, Q and Z) not used, and some further combinations that are reserved or banned, whilst in the YYY section aside from avoiding use of the letters I and Q, any combination is possible so long as it is not offensive.

My chum owns a car with a ‘cherished’ number plate, ie one that he bought from DVLA at new and was able to specify the lettering and numbers. The plate spells the name of a particular place he is fond of, which is relatively unknown, and also irrelevant to what follows. What does matter is that the final letter of the XX part is the same as the final letter of the YYY part.

Recently, he was returning to his car in a car park to find a chap taking a photo of the number plate. Somewhat bemused, he asked if the chap was taking the photo because it spelt the name of the aforementioned ‘special’ place, and therefore knew it. The photographer, equally bemused, had no idea that’s the plate spelt the name of a particular place. He said he was taking the photo because the final letter of XX is the same as the final letter of YYY, and that was especially rare.

Now leaving aside the principle of someone going around spotting and taking photos of number plates (although I am given to understand some people do similar things with train numbers ;) ) this struck me as rather odd. There are 23 different letters used in the XX set, and 24 in the YYY set, therefore the odds of the final X letter matching the final Y letter should be 1:24. Not that rare at all. I would certainly have been asking a few more questions of said spotter, but my chum being rather more laissez-faire said ‘right you are’ and that was that.

This morning I decided to check my theory on my walk to the station. I checked the plate of every vehicle that I saw, and kept a tally of those that had the ‘match’ and those that didn’t.

After 250 vehicles I stopped counting, and not a single vehicle had matching final letters. Odd. Nevertheless I did the same on the way home, and again gave up after 250 vehicles with no matches. All told 500 vehicles with no matches. Someone with a better statistics capability than me can work out the chances of that happening for a supposed 1:24 probability, but I think it’s pretty remote.

So four(ish) questions:

1) does anyone on the forum have, or know of a non-cherished plate that has matching final letters of the two letter groups?

2) Does this mean that DVLA does not routinely issue number plates in that format?

3) and if not, why not? Is it because they are all kept behind for cherished sales, perhaps because married couples like to buy plates with both sets of initials on them?

4) or have I ‘discovered’ something that is actually already well known? I’m not a spotter, you see.
 
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CatfordCat

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I've never noticed this, and on a sample of one (my current car) I'm not aware of any vehicle with this happening.

On a larger sample, I've looked at a recent Reading Buses fleet list (as a sample) and didn't spot any. And there's a sequence of buses bought last year for route 17 as follows

YP67 XCA
YP67 XCB
YP67 XCC
YP67 XCD
YP67 XCE
YP67 XCF
YP67 XCG
YP67 XCH
YP67 XCJ
YP67 XCK
YP67 XCL
YP67 XCM
YP67 XCN
YP67 XCO
YP67 XCR
YP67 XCS
YP67 XCT

with XCI and XCQ missing as expected but YP67 XCP also missing.

Hmm. After a bit of thought, it occurs to me that there could be a market here - for example, John Smith and his wife Anne Mary Smith might like the idea of their new car being JS18 AMS
 

507021

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With the current vehicle registration system, the second and fifth letter cannot be the same (apart from on personalised registrations). I have no idea why though.
 

pdeaves

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In the XX section there are some letters (I, Q and Z) not used, and some further combinations that are reserved or banned, whilst in the YYY section aside from avoiding use of the letters I and Q, any combination is possible so long as it is not offensive.
Well and truly an aside from the issue under discussion, I am surprised that they use the letter O now (why Q and not O, I wonder?). Plates with O just look wrong.
 

etr221

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Well and truly an aside from the issue under discussion, I am surprised that they use the letter O now (why Q and not O, I wonder?). Plates with O just look wrong.
The other thing with the letter O is that - in the font used for vehicle registration plates - it is the same as numeric 0 (and I think same is also true of I/1).
And it is only the case up to a point that you can tell them apart by position: consider a registration like ABO7OOW (or is it AB0700W?)
 

GusB

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Interesting. I've just had a quick look on BLOTW (buslistsontheweb.co.uk), and I've searched for local registration combinations in years when there were quite a few new vehicles delivered.

SV08 - begins with SV08FXP, and continues through to SV08FXZ (First Aberdeen 37633 - 37641). There is no SV08FXV, when one would expect a block of index marks to be allocated.
SV08 - begins with SV08GUO and ends with SV08GUX (Stagecoach Bluebird 36046 - 36049). There's no GUP, GUR, GUS, GUT, GUV or GUZ.
SV11 - begins with SV11FFR and continues to SV11FFX, omitting SV11FFV
SV12 - begins with SV12CZF and ends up with SV12CZZ. There is no SV12CZV. This is a bigger batch and is continuous with the usual omissions of I and Q.

This is something I've never noticed before, but it would appear that you're onto something here, @Bald Rick ! Freedom of information request, anyone?
 

GusB

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While on the subject of number plate combinations, the entire sequence of SN07 plates was apparently withheld because SN07 might be deemed as resembling the highly offensive word "Snot"! These plates were issued as TN07 instead. Forgive me for quoting the D**** M***, but it did publish a fairly amusing article on the subject:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...5-ORG-45M-goes-sale-costing-135-000-each.html
But the agency's decision to ban more trivial combinations has left some perplexed.

In 2007, number plates in Scotland bearing the sequence SN07 were banned for being offensive, as the sequence could bear a resemblance to the word 'snot'.
There was no problem with the issue of SN08 plates the following year...
 

Puppetfinger

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Someone I know has the same letter ending the letter parts of the plate. It is 'cherised' as such as with one of the numbers being read as a letter not number it spells his nickname. However the plate itself is to my knowledge, a standard plate combination that would have been issued by the Bristol registration office.
 

SteveP29

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Probably not relevant, but on the old system (XXX nnnX and Xnnn XXX) the 2nd and 3rd XX in the XXX part of the plate was a 2 letter code for an area of the UK, I don't actually know if it was where the car was registered or sold. I know that Durham was VK. I still see the VK in the new system too and still wonder if it is still the case.
 

GusB

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Probably not relevant, but on the old system (XXX nnnX and Xnnn XXX) the 2nd and 3rd XX in the XXX part of the plate was a 2 letter code for an area of the UK, I don't actually know if it was where the car was registered or sold. I know that Durham was VK. I still see the VK in the new system too and still wonder if it is still the case.
Under the old system the two-letter geographic code denoted where the vehicle was registered. Cars sold in my locality could appear with SE (Issued by Aberdeen for Keith), SA/SO/SS/RS (Aberdeen) or AS/ST (Inverness).

There is info on Wikpedia, but there's a useful document that I downloaded from the Chiltern Vehicle Preservation Group that gives a bit more history:
http://www.cvpg.co.uk/REG.pdf
 

deltic1989

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While on the subject of number plate combinations, the entire sequence of SN07 plates was apparently withheld because SN07 might be deemed as resembling the highly offensive word "Snot"! These plates were issued as TN07 instead. Forgive me for quoting the D**** M***, but it did publish a fairly amusing article on the subject:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...5-ORG-45M-goes-sale-costing-135-000-each.html

There was no problem with the issue of SN08 plates the following year...

I wonder then, on that basis, weather SH17 or AR53 were ever issued?
 

Journeyman

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While on the subject of number plate combinations, the entire sequence of SN07 plates was apparently withheld because SN07 might be deemed as resembling the highly offensive word "Snot"! These plates were issued as TN07 instead. Forgive me for quoting the D**** M***, but it did publish a fairly amusing article on the subject:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...5-ORG-45M-goes-sale-costing-135-000-each.html

There was no problem with the issue of SN08 plates the following year...

Aha! I'd always been curious as to why every TN plate was 07...
 

GusB

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I wonder then, on that basis, weather SH17 or AR53 were ever issued?
I've checked on http://dvlaregistrations.direct.gov.uk/ and after searching for both combinations, neither were available.

I can understand the DVLA banning specific combinations, but to rule out a whole sequence of plates because it vaguely resembles a naughty word seems a bit over-the-top
 

Warwick

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On the naughty step again.
Probably not relevant, but on the old system (XXX nnnX and Xnnn XXX) the 2nd and 3rd XX in the XXX part of the plate was a 2 letter code for an area of the UK, I don't actually know if it was where the car was registered or sold. I know that Durham was VK. I still see the VK in the new system too and still wonder if it is still the case.

The V prefix refers to Severn Valley which is the Worcester office.
 

deltic1989

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I've checked on http://dvlaregistrations.direct.gov.uk/ and after searching for both combinations, neither were available.

I can understand the DVLA banning specific combinations, but to rule out a whole sequence of plates because it vaguely resembles a naughty word seems a bit over-the-top

Interestingly that website indicates that the plate FA13 CKU is available, which is rather close to something quite rude. :lol:
 

krus_aragon

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Well and truly an aside from the issue under discussion, I am surprised that they use the letter O now (why Q and not O, I wonder?). Plates with O just look wrong.
"Q" plates had a special meaning under the old (pre-2001) system: it was reserved for unusual, imported or kit-built cars. (When applying for motor insurance, you're often asked to confirm that you don't have a Q plate.) This explains their absence in modern plates, as QnnnXXX plates are still issued as needed (iirc). Imagine the confusion if people thought that their motor insurance was void because there's a Q among the random letters on their numberplate...
 

deltic1989

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Q plates are issued when the age or identity of the vehicle is in doubt. Kit cars and unique one off shed builds are a good example of this.
Generally imports are given an age related plate if the age of the vehicle can be confirmed, if not then a Q plate may be issued.
My first car was a 1991 BMW 3 Series, which was sold new in the Isle of Man, then exported to Spain, and imported back into the UK in 1998. It was given an age related plate on import, rather amusingly H109 POO.
 

eotw

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In the XX section there are some letters (I, Q and Z)

Under the old YYY 999X and X999 YYY formats I and Z were both used for Northern Irish cars (exclusively I think) with a different format XXX 9999.

I bought a car in my home county of Fermanagh with a number starting FIL - When I was living in London I was confused when "garage neighbours" at work called me "Phil" - by the time I worked out why I was too embarrassed to correct them.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Probably not relevant, but on the old system (XXX nnnX and Xnnn XXX) the 2nd and 3rd XX in the XXX part of the plate was a 2 letter code for an area of the UK, I don't actually know if it was where the car was registered or sold. I know that Durham was VK. I still see the VK in the new system too and still wonder if it is still the case.

The V prefix refers to Severn Valley which is the Worcester office.

The present system is reasonably logical as regards the area letters used. That certainly could not be said for the previous system though of course that had effectively been cobbled together during the very long-term process of closing most of the old local registration offices.
 

Bald Rick

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Thanks for all the replies. From them, I think we can deduce that:

a) DVLA does not routinely issue reg plates with matching last letters of the two seperate letter sectors

b) no one knows why, but suspect it may be because they are withheld to sell as cherished reg marks

c) this wasnt generally known by many people.
 

krus_aragon

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The present system is reasonably logical as regards the area letters used. That certainly could not be said for the previous system though of course that had effectively been cobbled together during the very long-term process of closing most of the old local registration offices.

EY for Anglesey made perfect sense to me growing up, and CC for Caernarfonshire seemed logical. JC also representing Caernarfonshire started to stretch things a bit, though.
 

bb21

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The old system did not give letters meanings, they were initially assigned in alphabetical order in descending settlement population sizes, and latterly additional combinations allocated when the previous one ran out of numbers.
 

FQTV

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Probably not relevant, but on the old system (XXX nnnX and Xnnn XXX) the 2nd and 3rd XX in the XXX part of the plate was a 2 letter code for an area of the UK, I don't actually know if it was where the car was registered or sold. I know that Durham was VK. I still see the VK in the new system too and still wonder if it is still the case.

VK was actually a Newcastle designator, amongst others for Newcastle.

Durham was UP, PT and GR.

In the area, Middlesbrough was (at least) VN, HN, PY, DC and AJ, as it goes.
 

Bald Rick

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Brilliantly, or possibly scarily, the banner advert at the top of this thread (for me) is now from “Speedyreg.co.uk”

Can google ads detect numberplates in a thread and thus advertise accordingly?
 

GusB

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It was given an age related plate on import, rather amusingly H109 POO.
That reminds me of the old BBC programme That's Life which showed a picture of a car with the plate LOO412P.
 
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