GB Railfreight in 'locomotive acquisition' talks

[CosherB]

Interesting stuff ....

GB Railfreight (GBRf) is discussing the possibility of purchasing locomotives with various companies, though no deal is yet in place. GBRf spokesperson Victoria Adams told RAIL that suggestions that the operator was buying Class 60s from DB Cargo were ‘speculation’. She said: “GBRf has currently no agreement to purchase Class 60 locomotives from DB Cargo, and we have made no offers to purchase.” She confirmed, however, that GBRf is looking at future locomotive availability, to align with recent new contract wins. She said various options were being investigated, but that no deal for ‘60s’ had been agreed. Adams added: “We are in discussion with various major UK companies in relation to locomotive acquisition, but no such agreement is yet in place.” Previously, GBRf Managing Director John Smith told RAIL that the company was talking to manufacturers regarding new trains, and he would not rule out leasing a redundant High Speed Train for high-speed freight once they are returned to rolling stock leasing companies by passenger operators. GBRf took delivery of its final Class 66/7 in February last year, and currently has 78 Class 66s, 20 Class 73s and 16 Class 92s (not all the ‘73s’ and ‘92s’ are operational). It also hires Class 08s and ‘20s’ from Harry Needle Railroad Company.*

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/gb-railfreight-in-locomotive-acquisition-talks

 

[DarloRich]

rumours have been circulating for some time so this seems like a holding statement pending completion of talks

 

[TimboM]

rumours have been circulating for some time so this seems like a holding statement pending completion of talks

Agreed - I think the lines of that statement (assuming it's been accurately represented in RAIL) can be fairly easily read between...!

 

[xotGD]

Time to speculate on which services will be hauled by 60s?

Can we have them on the Rylstone Branch please?

 

[fgwrich]

So GB doesn't fancy taking on anymore 59s then?

I wonder then, if it is true and GB do take on some 60s - they'll probably go through BRUSH, but would they come out with newer, efficient and probably more reliable engines?

 

[Far north 37]

So GB doesn't fancy taking on anymore 59s then?

I wonder then, if it is true and GB do take on some 60s - they'll probably go through BRUSH, but would they come out with newer, efficient and probably more reliable engines?

i cant see any of the aggregates companies or db cargo ever selling any more 59s on especially when theres no replacement heavy freight loco of any kind available to replace and why would they think they been the most reliable locos on the uk since the 80s now.
especially with aggregate buisness growing all the time i imagine there gutted at getting rid of the one they already did.

 

[TimboM]

So GB doesn't fancy taking on anymore 59s then?

I wonder then, if it is true and GB do take on some 60s - they'll probably go through BRUSH, but would they come out with newer, efficient and probably more reliable engines?

The other 59s are DB's aren't they?

"various options are being investigated" suggest the 60s plan that's been well-rumoured/reported may only be one idea. I wouldn't rule out GBRf making enquiries about other traction DB have 'surplus' that fits their fleet and they believe they can use - 59s, 66s, even some of the better stored 92s at Crewe...?

 

[Far north 37]

The other 59s are DB's aren't they?

"various options are being investigated" suggest the 60s plan that's been well-rumoured/reported may only be one idea. I wouldn't rule out GBRf making enquiries about other traction DB have 'surplus' that fits their fleet and they believe they can use - 59s, 66s, even some of the better stored 92s at Crewe...?

no only 201-206 are owned by db they bought them of national power years ago if i remember right they just supply all the drivers for all 59 operated services.
rest of the fleet is owned by aggregate industries maintained at merehead i think.

 

[TimboM]

no only 201-206 are owned by db they bought them of national power years ago if i remember right they just supply all the drivers for all 59 operated services.
rest of the fleet is owned by aggregate industries maintained at merehead i think.

Ah OK - yes, there's 4x Aggregate Industries/Foster Yeoman (59001/2/4/5) and 4x Hanson (59101-4).

Agree with your post above, I don't think anyone will be letting 59s go.

Also, if you look at it from GBRf's perspective, if they want/need heavy haul diesel locos, the stored/unused 60s should be a more realistic and cheaper target (to buy/rent at least) than trying to prise away a 59 from companies who still use/want them.

 

[Far north 37]

yeah i think the present owners will run the 59s for as long as they can they have been running heavy stone trains for 30 years some of them with failures practically unheard of and cant remember any even been stored ever very impressive record and they dont even seem to be showing signs of aging think they have operated a 97% reliability record since been introduced.

 

[CosherB]

yeah i think the present owners will run the 59s for as long as they can they have been running heavy stone trains for 30 years some of them with failures practically unheard of and cant remember any even been stored ever very impressive record and they dont even seem to be showing signs of aging think they have operated a 97% reliability record since been introduced.

Which is why I continually bang on about why the Class 60 order should have been a facsimile of the Class 59, and not the Brush incarnation we ended up with purely for political reasons .... hey ho.

 

[CosherB]

On a slight tangent, it looks like we have yet another variation of the GBRf livery on a 66 ..... attached photo (not mine) showing 66775 in it's 'new' colours.

66775

Maybe Europorte were not that keen on the look of 92028!

 

[DarloRich]

On a slight tangent, it looks like we have yet another variation of the GBRf livery on a 66 ..... attached photo (not mine) showing 66775 in it's 'new' colours.

66775

Maybe Europorte were not that keen on the look of 92028!

Do Swedish private equity investor EQT Infrastructure II not now own GBRF?

 

[CosherB]

Do Swedish private equity investor EQT Infrastructure II not now own GBRF?

Indeed they do, hence my speculated chagrin from GBRfs previous owner!

 

[37038]

Freightliner have a few 66s coming off lease shortly. 66595-599 and 66951-957 from memory...

 

[richieb1971]

What about 70's? Are all stocks depleted now?

My preference is either the 56's at Leicester or the 60's at Toton to come back into service.

Remember we have a whole fleet of 58's in Spain and France doing nothing. If bulk buying is a consideration I'm sure you'd get value for money there.

My bet is that GBRf want more 66's though. Just makes sense to keep the fleet the same.

 

[DarloRich]

What about 70's? Are all stocks depleted now?

My preference is either the 56's at Leicester or the 60's at Toton to come back into service.

Remember we have a whole fleet of 58's in Spain and France doing nothing. If bulk buying is a consideration I'm sure you'd get value for money there.

My bet is that GBRf want more 66's though. Just makes sense to keep the fleet the same.

it would be cheaper to design and build a new locomotive than try and reinvigorate the 58's!

It is most likely to be class 60's i should think due to the available numbers. There might be a couple of surplus 66's floating about in due course but not enough in my view.

 

[CosherB]

What about 70's? Are all stocks depleted now?

My preference is either the 56's at Leicester or the 60's at Toton to come back into service.

Remember we have a whole fleet of 58's in Spain and France doing nothing. If bulk buying is a consideration I'm sure you'd get value for money there.

My bet is that GBRf want more 66's though. Just makes sense to keep the fleet the same.

What about them? Are FL or Colas looking to offload them? I very much doubt it (despite internet wibble about FL swaps).

I also doubt whether GBRf are interested in 56s - too much of a backward step for them - 60s would be far more likely, especially for the type of traffic that GBRf may have in mind for them.

And as for 58s, I'll eat my hat if they ever come back to the UK for mainline use.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I'd be interested to see how a 60 would perform on the Liverpool-Drax Biomass trains, seeing these trains on a daily basis climbing the 1:132 bank up from Ash Bridge Junc. towards Reddish South the GBRF 66s see to be mustering everything they've got to shift these vast trains and when it's bad rail conditions they really do appear to struggle managing what appears to be about 15 mph tops, I do wonder if a 60 with its superior (over both 66 & 59) haulage and wheelslip control would remove the need for any banking out of Liverpool Docks as is currently required?

 

[CosherB]

I'd be interested to see how a 60 would perform on the Liverpool-Drax Biomass trains, seeing these trains on a daily basis climbing the 1:132 bank up from Ash Bridge Junc. towards Reddish South the GBRF 66s see to be mustering everything they've got to shift these vast trains and when it's bad rail conditions they really do appear to struggle managing what appears to be about 15 mph tops, I do wonder if a 60 with its superior (over both 66 & 59) haulage and wheelslip control would remove the need for any banking out of Liverpool Docks as is currently required?

GBRf has flatly denied publically that this is the type of work they have in mind for 60s. It follows then, that this is exactly the type of work they would want the 60s for, and for the reasons you've listed!

 

[DarloRich]

GBRf has flatly denied publically that this is the type of work they have in mind for 60s. It follows then, that this is exactly the type of work they would want the 60s for, and for the reasons you've listed!

unless they want them for infrastructure/ possession trains but the biomass trains seem more realistic.

 

[richieb1971]

The thought of GBRf putting non 66 freight anywhere near where I am is a major positive. Quite a bit comes through my way but when its GBRf you know its a 66. Would be nice to be kept guessing if its a 60 or something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richieb1971 View Post
What about 70's? Are all stocks depleted now?

Was thinking about if any were state side still. Which is why I asked if all stocks were depleted (new).

 

[CosherB]

Was thinking about if any were state side still. Which is why I asked if all stocks were depleted (new).

They're built to order, so no 'stocks' to call off.

 

[Far north 37]

The thought of GBRf putting non 66 freight anywhere near where I am is a major positive. Quite a bit comes through my way but when its GBRf you know its a 66. Would be nice to be kept guessing if its a 60 or something else.



Was thinking about if any were state side still. Which is why I asked if all stocks were depleted (new).

dont meet new emission regulations either so no more can be built

 

[richieb1971]

I would have thought that UKRL would have some say in the negotiations. Years ago they stated putting new engines in 56 shell's was a possibility.

I'm sure that Leicester L.I.P's purpose isn't to house rusting corpses.

 

[CosherB]

I would have thought that UKRL would have some say in the negotiations. Years ago they stated putting new engines in 56 shell's was a possibility.

I'm sure that Leicester L.I.P's purpose isn't to house rusting corpses.

Why? What have they got to do with GBRf traction policy?

 

[Far north 37]

a class 56 re-engine programme would be so massive and cost so much money i dont see why anyone would bother with such older locos when there could be the possibility of getting 60s which have already have a succesful tried and tested overhaul programme in place.

 

[37038]

Just to note that re-engineering/overhaul of any loco currently in the UK would cost significantly less per unit than buying new.

Note a reconditioned type 5 costs about a third of that of a new build and, depending on whether they're owned outright, come without the leasing charge

 

[Roast Veg]

I'm sure that Leicester L.I.P's purpose isn't to house rusting corpses.

It certainly isn't, quite a lot of not-so-rusted activity occurs there almost daily. The 56s that they have rebuilt are in and out on spot hire and it's a common stabling point for stock transfers. Of the 56s there I believe there are only a handful that could be brought into service, fewer than the 60s.

 

[Suraggu]

GBRf MD John Smith stated years ago they would not go anywhere near the Class 56 fleet that was up for sale at the time. He stated it does not fit with GBRf fleet strategy, not only being extremely old in the grand scheme of freight locomotives but also hideously unreliable.