GBRf 317 EMU drag 03/04/12

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ChristopherJ

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A GBRf class 66 hauling two barrier wagons flanked by a phase one class 317 EMU, either a 317/5 or 317/8 - I couldn't tell because of the angle I saw it, passed me between Stratford and Hackney Wick at 19:30 hrs this evening. Where and what is happening to the 317? I assume the working orginated at Ilford EMUD.

Thanks.
 
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Boothby97

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Probably would have worked from Ilford. Could be off for refurbishement or maybe one of the off lease 317s moving for storage/use elsewhere.
Second strange East Anglia move of the day today then, because I saw 153309 (in the Abellio GA white with red doors livery) pass Rugby this morning (presumably going home form Wolverton to Norwich) while the Royal Train (with 67026 on the front) sat in the station.
Thanks, Sam
 

50047

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Movement of 317710 originated at Aldersbrook

Next movement will be 317729, 5O17 Thursday 05/04
Depart Aldersbrook (not Ilford) 19.15, Arrive Eastleigh 23.12

After that will be 708 on 11/04 but timings are likely to be different

Over the next six or seven weeks, all bar one should drift down to Eastleigh

All moves will be GBRf 66 and Porterbrook Translators
 

SprinterMan

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Movement of 317710 originated at Aldersbrook

Next movement will be 317729, 5O17 Thursday 05/04
Depart Aldersbrook (not Ilford) 19.15, Arrive Eastleigh 23.12

After that will be 708 on 11/04 but timings are likely to be different

Over the next six or seven weeks, all bar one should drift down to Eastleigh

All moves will be GBRf 66 and Porterbrook Translators
All 317/7s are headed for Eastleigh, GA aren't keeping any for spot-hire work now 317511 has finally been fixed properly.
 

jon0844

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Surely they can find some use somewhere? They're 2+2 seating throughout aren't they (is FC 2+1?) and in fairly good nick. 317s are fast and reliable, so it seems crazy for them to go into store.
 

SprinterMan

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Surely they can find some use somewhere? They're 2+2 seating throughout aren't they (is FC 2+1?) and in fairly good nick. 317s are fast and reliable, so it seems crazy for them to go into store.
The problem is that they have a very high cost per seat due to the small number of seats. The number of standard class seats they have is comparable to a 156. Also, very few AC electric only operators need stock, so there is little demand for them. Northern will probs take them when TP is electrified.
 

ginger

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this evening 4 units stabled in Alderbrook sidings - at least 3 units absolutely covered in graffiti.....the sooner they get them out of there the better!
 

87015

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The Also, very few AC electric only operators need stock, so there is little demand for them. Northern will probs take them when TP is electrified.
Really? There is massive peak overcrowding out of most London terminals where extra seats and standing space are very much needed. Kings X, Fenchurch Street, Euston or even Liverpool Street say?! They might be safe at Eastleigh but being cold stored off the wires isn't going to do them much good at all, see 321/4s and I believe there is still a significant difference in reliability with the long-stored sets against 421-423 which went straight into service despite them all being overhauled at Doncaster...
 

ginger

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Really? There is massive peak overcrowding out of most London terminals where extra seats and standing space are very much needed. Kings X, Fenchurch Street, Euston or even Liverpool Street say?! They might be safe at Eastleigh but being cold stored off the wires isn't going to do them much good at all, see 321/4s and I believe there is still a significant difference in reliability with the long-stored sets against 421-423 which went straight into service despite them all being overhauled at Doncaster...
the "overhaul" of all the 321s is a very moot point.....everyonbe assumes that because they are going in for "overhaul2 they will come out a new train.....far from it!

the C6 is for bodywork repairs, repainting and doors/mechanisms overhaul......the running gear is repaired / replaced by Ilford as and when it is needed.....nothing has been done to the disgusting interiors....

agree....the 321/4s were sat around for ages before being put into....I have been on several that keep failing even recently. They are absolute crap and need to be scrapped or stripped back to bare metal inside and out and start again!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
66 724 in barbie livery on station at Ilford this morning with the 2 barrier vans ready to move another...........
 

50047

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As is probably know, 317714 was moved to Eastleigh on 02/07. That leaves 317719 and 317722 at Ilford. 317719 will depart Eastleigh on 15/08 bound for a Northerly destination where it is likely to stay for one year. 317722 will not be leaving Ilford
 

fgwrich

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Whilst i'll be following these EMU life extention programs with interest, i do think it's a shame that they've chosen to modify a 317/7 - As part of the work, it will have a more Metro style interior installed, presumably something similar to SWTs 455s which is good in one respect as a test bed for the rest of the 317 Fleet, but if the rest of the /7 Fleet stays how it currently is, Angel are going to end up with one oddity - unless it's an NX Style job with only one coach tested.

If anyone's interested, this work also looks set to replace the current DC Traction Motors with a new Bombardier AC traction package.
 

SprinterMan

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Whilst i'll be following these EMU life extention programs with interest, i do think it's a shame that they've chosen to modify a 317/7 - As part of the work, it will have a more Metro style interior installed, presumably something similar to SWTs 455s which is good in one respect as a test bed for the rest of the 317 Fleet, but if the rest of the /7 Fleet stays how it currently is, Angel are going to end up with one oddity - unless it's an NX Style job with only one coach tested.

If anyone's interested, this work also looks set to replace the current DC Traction Motors with a new Bombardier AC traction package.
AFAIK, 2 carriages will be receiving a 455-style interior, and 2 carriages will be receiving a long-distance interior. New DDA toilets and air conditioning will be fitted (don't 317/7s already have both of these?) and a new AC traction package from bombardier will be fitted, replacing the current ancient DC arrangement. I am really excited to see the result. I think this work will be carried out at Ilford. Hopefully properly sealed windows are fitted so as to maximize the air con, and the hateful inter-carriage doors are replaced by sliding examples.
Adam :D
 

fgwrich

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AFAIK, 2 carriages will be receiving a 455-style interior, and 2 carriages will be receiving a long-distance interior. New DDA toilets and air conditioning will be fitted (don't 317/7s already have both of these?) and a new AC traction package from bombardier will be fitted, replacing the current ancient DC arrangement. I am really excited to see the result. I think this work will be carried out at Ilford. Hopefully properly sealed windows are fitted so as to maximize the air con, and the hateful inter-carriage doors are replaced by sliding examples.
Adam :D
Good Good! (Just keep them set up for Longer Distance interiors though!)

Apart from that, Sounds good and this, along with the Alstom offering, could well benifit many of the ex BR EMUs we have running around the network for years to come! :)
 

Peter Mugridge

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The impression I got was that it is two carriages getting an interior exactly as per the SWT 455s and the other two retain their present interior layout and they will see which of the two is the most popular with passengers.













( And then they'll fit the whole fleet with the other interior! :lol: )
 

SprinterMan

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321448 getting the 321 equivalent I believe, Eversholt leading on that one.
Greater Anglia are giving up one of their fleet for this rebuild? Not heard about this. Didn't think they could afford to lose a unit. Who will be operating 317722 after the rebuild anyway?
Adam :D
 

jameslm85

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Good to find this thread on the 317-7!

It's odd that NXEA/GA took the decision to remove the 317-7 series, when they were amongst the best condition 317 units. -5s are old, poor condition inside and smell. -6s are fine. -8s are also in pretty bad condition too. -7s were the only ones with AC, easy access WC and bike storage and comfy seats so seemed strange they got withdrawn. The argument was they were airport trains so replaced by 379s, but -8s were airport style trains too and they work the Camb-LLS now.

I guess that after experimenting with one unit, they will then overhaul the whole 317-7 series. It would be nice to see them back on the Camb-LLS line. What do people think will happen to them?
 

jon0844

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Perhaps the leasing costs were higher?

Personally, I think 2+2 seating is often far better for commuters, many of whom are happy to stand and just want a bit more room to do so (and also improving the boarding/alighting time at a station because people can pass those standing easier).

However, a lot of people merely count the number of seats and thus the /7s weren't up to the job.

I don't think they were the only ones with aircon (another range got it added too) but given the windows could still open, it was totally pointless and must have been seriously stressing the system out - and still failing to cool. What idiot retro-fitted aircon and left openable windows should never be allowed to work on heating or ventilating systems ever again!
 

jameslm85

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Yes the air con and windows were not a good mix. People used to rage on a hot day if you went round closing windows not understanding the basic premise of air con operation! Then the air con would over heat and just pour cooling liquid all over the area by the train doors - good times.

The seat numbers issue makes sense - I guess that is the deciding factor when working out which units to withdraw. They were comfy seats at least, especially compared the /5s and /8s.
 

jon0844

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I got on one 317 (but not a /7) that had leaked fluid all over a seat and table. I had to warn everyone that wanted the seat that it was soaking wet - but eventually someone thought they knew better (or I was lying) and sat down anyway. You could see their face as they felt the water seeping through their trousers - but they just carried on sitting there!
 

SprinterMan

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Perhaps the leasing costs were higher?

Personally, I think 2+2 seating is often far better for commuters, many of whom are happy to stand and just want a bit more room to do so (and also improving the boarding/alighting time at a station because people can pass those standing easier).

However, a lot of people merely count the number of seats and thus the /7s weren't up to the job.

I don't think they were the only ones with aircon (another range got it added too) but given the windows could still open, it was totally pointless and must have been seriously stressing the system out - and still failing to cool. What idiot retro-fitted aircon and left openable windows should never be allowed to work on heating or ventilating systems ever again!
The irony of the situation with the windows was that when they had the air con fitted, they were actually fitted with NEW openable windows, the same sort as the 317/6s as opposed to the original steel ones. The whole refurbishment was pretty sorry tbh. The inter-carriage doors have never really worked properly and spend most of their time stuck open or stuck closed, the seats are just the same as in a 317/6 (chapman seats) but do not even have armrests like a 156 does. The DDA toilets are useful but take up a huge amount of space, and the 1st class section is too big. They are the least versatile and most expensive to lease of all 317s an no more comfortable than a 317/6, but they were far better than a 321.

Adam :D
 

jameslm85

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The inter-carriage doors were unreliable. They were part of the "cutting edge" design of the interior but never quite worked right.

Even with these faults, I'd still happily have them back instead of the /5s. They are in such a state and the interiors are yuck. Surely they can't be kept in service for many more years without an overhaul or replacing....
 
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