Gbrf class 50 true identity enquiry

[warwickshire]

Today 0z50 1447 reading tmd to Kidderminster svr had gbrf livered 50049 on front but with gbrf livered class 50 on rear.
However the one on the rear was numbered 50014, on the body side.. But at the cab end on the yellow cab end it was 50007. Note wikipedia says 50014 is officially withdrawn. How come this gbrf locomotive has two different class 50 numbers on it.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Really?

I thought the GBRf Class 50s were 50.007 and 50.049

 

[16CSVT2700]

50007 carries 50014 on one side only. It was done for I believe a GBRf manager as his favourite 50 was 50014 'Warspite'.

 

[warwickshire]

Really?

I thought the GBRf Class 50s were 50.007 and 50.049

Honestly 50014 was on the body side off the second loco but with 50007 on the yellow cab end. If anyone is going past the severn valley railway at kidderminster, it might be on display for a few days at view from the main line. In the yard there.

 

[warwickshire]

50007 carries 50014 on one side.

Why is this out off interest?.

 

[43096]

50007 carries 50014 on one side only. It was done for I believe a GBRf manager as his favourite 50 was 50014 'Warspite'.

I don’t believe it was for a GBRf manager, though otherwise correct.

 

[Far north 37]

I don’t believe it was for a GBRf manager, though otherwise correct.

They usually put different numbers on locos for railtours and galas, don't they?

It's quite common on Deltics.

 

[D365]

They usually put different numbers on locos for railtours and galas, don't they?

It's quite common on Deltics.

Yep, 55022 has previously carried the identities of a number of its former classmates.

 

[childwallblues]

When ATW used 50031/49 on hire for the Cardiff to Fishguard service many years ago we travelled on the service to Fishguard. The loco was 50031 but when we got to Fishguard we were surprised to note that it was numbered 50019 on the other side.

 

[raetiamann]

The GWR green Sir Edward Elgar was I believe 50007 and that a short while ago was at the Midland Railway Centre, awaiting quite a bit of work, so is the current 50007 an imposter?

 

[Cowley]

The GWR green Sir Edward Elgar was I believe 50007 and that a short while ago was at the Midland Railway Centre, awaiting quite a bit of work, so is the current 50007 an imposter?

No it’s the same loco. It went into BR blue a couple of years back and was renamed back to ‘Hercules’ when it went mainline again after many years (a lot of old school 50 bashers had wanted it back as Hercules for years).

 

[randyrippley]

No it’s the same loco. It went into BR blue a couple of years back and was renamed back to ‘Hercules’ when it went mainline again after many years (a lot of old school 50 bashers had wanted it back as Hercules for years).

I always find the enthusiasm for the "Hercules" name amusing.
At the time it was renamed to "Elgar" the only serving warship named Hercules was Argentinian - and the name change was widely reported as being due to political pressure

 

[Cowley]

I always find the enthusiasm for the "Hercules" name amusing.
At the time it was renamed to "Elgar" the only serving warship named Hercules was Argentinian - and the name change was widely reported as being due to political pressure

That’s interesting.
Because I grew up in that GWR150 era I always liked ‘Sir Edward’ because from a distance it looked like an original BR blue 50 with the yellow around the windscreens.
A lot of 50 bashers hated the change though (I wasn’t a 50 basher but I was a bit of a GWR fan, so it didn’t really bother me).

 

[crosscity]

Really?

I thought the GBRf Class 50s were 50.007 and 50.049

50007 carries 50014 on one side only. It was done for I believe a GBRf manager as his favourite 50 was 50014 'Warspite'.

I don’t believe it was for a GBRf manager, though otherwise correct.

They usually put different numbers on locos for railtours and galas, don't they?

As 50007 and 50049 are now GBRF locos alluded to by the OP, here is a picture of them from a couple of years ago with changed identities.

Sun 5 Aug 2018 at 16:56. EE Class 50s Nos 50049 DEFIANCE and 50007 HERCULES (in disguise as 50011 and 50046) at Longbridge with 1Z50 the 12:14 Birmingham International to Basingstoke 'Dub and Grub GBRf charity railtour'. Previously D449, D407. by Ray, on Flickr

 

[xotGD]

I always find the enthusiasm for the "Hercules" name amusing.
At the time it was renamed to "Elgar" the only serving warship named Hercules was Argentinian - and the name change was widely reported as being due to political pressure

Warship? I thought it was named after Monsieur Poirot!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Think the nod to 50014 was down to it being either the first to be withdrawn, or the first to be cut. Either way the correct identity is D407 or 50 007 Hercules/Sir Edward Elgar.

The removal of the Hercules name if it is political may well be down to the Falkland Islands campaign, as tensions were still high between the countries or could be from Diego Maradonna’s hand of god putting us out of the World Cup, who knows? But an interesting one if Hercules was indeed an Argentinian vessel, 50s were of course named after British Naval vessels, but not all the names were in use on active ships or the vessels no longer existed at the time the names were applied to the locos. Ark Royal for example, Audacious class RO9 was withdrawn in 1979, however its replacement, Invincible class RO7 was not put in to service until 1985 and was originally to be named Indomitable (Carried by 50 026) to match Invincible and illustrious

 

[FGW_DID]

The Locos don’t belong to GBRF, they are still owned by the Class 50 Alliance / 50 fund but GBRF funded a lot of work (overhaul? / repaint) in return for using them on stock moves etc.

As for changing identities, apparently there are people who are willing to pay a considerable sum of money to have the machines represent their favourite 50s, which all goes to the upkeep of the Locos, which isn’t cheap as you can imagine!

I’m not personally involved but a work colleague is quite heavily.

 

[Cowley]

Think the nod to 50014 was down to it being either the first to be withdrawn, or the first to be cut. Either way the correct identity is D407 or 50 007 Hercules/Sir Edward Elgar.

The removal of the Hercules name if it is political may well be down to the Falkland Islands campaign, as tensions were still high between the countries or could be from Diego Maradonna’s hand of god putting us out of the World Cup, who knows? But an interesting one if Hercules was indeed an Argentinian vessel, 50s were of course named after British Naval vessels, but not all the names were in use on active ships or the vessels no longer existed at the time the names were applied to the locos. Ark Royal for example, Audacious class RO9 was withdrawn in 1979, however its replacement, Invincible class RO7 was not put in to service until 1985 and was originally to be named Indomitable (Carried by 50 026) to match Invincible and illustrious

Well I’ve got absolutely no clue about navel history, but from what I remember about the class 50s - 50011 ‘Centurion’ was the first to be withdrawn (it was used as a test bed for overhauled class 50 power units for a couple of years up at Crewe with a flap cut out of the bodywork for the cables to be run out of), followed by 50006 ‘Neptune’ (which to me always seemed to be a good performer) a few months later.
50011 outlived 50006, but it was a while later after these two had been withdrawn before there were serious inroads made into the class...

 

[rebmcr]

Well I’ve got absolutely no clue about navel history

Navel history is somewhere around the middle.

 

[Neptune]

Think the nod to 50014 was down to it being either the first to be withdrawn, or the first to be cut. Either way the correct identity is D407 or 50 007 Hercules/Sir Edward Elgar.

The removal of the Hercules name if it is political may well be down to the Falkland Islands campaign, as tensions were still high between the countries or could be from Diego Maradonna’s hand of god putting us out of the World Cup, who knows? But an interesting one if Hercules was indeed an Argentinian vessel, 50s were of course named after British Naval vessels, but not all the names were in use on active ships or the vessels no longer existed at the time the names were applied to the locos. Ark Royal for example, Audacious class RO9 was withdrawn in 1979, however its replacement, Invincible class RO7 was not put in to service until 1985 and was originally to be named Indomitable (Carried by 50 026) to match Invincible and illustrious

50011 was the first to be withdrawn and 50006 (my favourite you may guess from my username) was first to be scrapped (2nd withdrawal). 50014 was one of the earliest withdrawal/scrap victims but I believe it was the final loco to be refurbished.

I remember seeing 50007 at Donny Works after refurbishment in large logo livery. It didn’t last long in this guise before the GWR paint pot came out. I always find it a shame that it hasn’t gone back into Large Logo livery in preservation.

 

[Cowley]

50011 was the first to be withdrawn and 50006 (my favourite you may guess from my username) was first to be scrapped (2nd withdrawal). 50014 was one of the earliest withdrawal/scrap victims but I believe it was the final loco to be refurbished.

I remember seeing 50007 at Donny Works after refurbishment in large logo livery. It didn’t last long in this guise before the GWR paint pot came out. I always find it a shame that it hasn’t gone back into Large Logo livery in preservation.

50006 was a good performing loco and I remember eyebrows being raised when it was withdrawn (was it high on hours maybe?) I remember a couple of runs up the bank to Exeter Central with it going well.

 

[mpthomson]

Think the nod to 50014 was down to it being either the first to be withdrawn, or the first to be cut. Either way the correct identity is D407 or 50 007 Hercules/Sir Edward Elgar.

The removal of the Hercules name if it is political may well be down to the Falkland Islands campaign, as tensions were still high between the countries or could be from Diego Maradonna’s hand of god putting us out of the World Cup, who knows? But an interesting one if Hercules was indeed an Argentinian vessel, 50s were of course named after British Naval vessels, but not all the names were in use on active ships or the vessels no longer existed at the time the names were applied to the locos. Ark Royal for example, Audacious class RO9 was withdrawn in 1979, however its replacement, Invincible class RO7 was not put in to service until 1985 and was originally to be named Indomitable (Carried by 50 026) to match Invincible and illustrious

ARA Hercules was a Type 42 destroyer built by the UK for the Argentine government. The sad irony is that HMS Sheffield as lost in the conflict had a piece of ARA Hercules' hull welded into it after an onboard explosion during the time when they were both being built.

 

[nat67]

If you look at RealTimeTrains nowadays it gives a TOPS number for GBRF locos on there. It confirms that it's 50007+50049.