GEML franchise 2016

[Adrian1980uk]

Not sure if there's a business case for it but could the 153s be used to suppliment intermediate stations on the breckland line into norwich to speed up the norwich to cambridge service by reducing stops. Just a thought. Thinking Thetford, attleborough and Wymondham, with the possibility of reopening hethersett station / a new station there

 

[chubs]

Not sure if there's a business case for it but could the 153s be used to suppliment intermediate stations on the breckland line into norwich to speed up the norwich to cambridge service by reducing stops. Just a thought. Thinking Thetford, attleborough and Wymondham, with the possibility of reopening hethersett station / a new station there

How would it speed the service up? There's no way for a fast service to overtake a slow one is there? They never seem to stop for very long anyway in the intermediate stations, I cant see it saving more than 5 mins.

 

[Class 170101]

153s would be a retrograde step anyway. Perhaps if the Norwich to Stansted service called at Thetford, Ely, Cambridge, Whittlesford and Audfley End there might be some benefit but it would have to be 170s (or better) operating the service.

or

Perhaps a 'fast' service between Norwich and London via West Anglia calling at Tottenham Hale, Harlow Town, Bishops Stortford, Audley End, Whittlesford, Cambridge, Ely, Thetford and Norwich with the existing service extended to Stansted.

 

[DasLunatic]

153s would be a retrograde step anyway. Perhaps if the Norwich to Stansted service called at Thetford, Ely, Cambridge, Whittlesford and Audfley End there might be some benefit but it would have to be 170s (or better) operating the service.

or

Perhaps a 'fast' service between Norwich and London via West Anglia calling at Tottenham Hale, Harlow Town, Bishops Stortford, Audley End, Whittlesford, Cambridge, Ely, Thetford and Norwich with the existing service extended to Stansted.

90s aren't allowed down the WAML, aren't they?

 

[ag51ruk]

That does seem to suggest the game is afoot. I wonder what it is that Abellio think they can bring, and how much they'll pay. I'll bet the winning bid is already pretty tight, especially given the recent (nation-wide) slowdown in passenger growth.

If true, isn't EMT involvement likely to be about a proposal to split the Norwich - Liverpool route across the two franchises, as speculated about earlier in this thread?

 

[Class 170101]

90s aren't allowed down the WAML, aren't they?

Yes they are. They went there during Ipswich Tunnel closure. Dragged throughout during the week and under power at weekends.

 

[HH]

If true, isn't EMT involvement likely to be about a proposal to split the Norwich - Liverpool route across the two franchises, as speculated about earlier in this thread?

It could well be.

 

[Ianno87]

Yes they are. They went there during Ipswich Tunnel closure. Dragged throughout during the week and under power at weekends.

I think AC locos can only draw power south of Milton Fen Neutral Section (I.e. Cambridge).

Besides, in the standard hour, the Cambridge-Norwich is pretty quick anyway as it is already pretty limited stop. It's only the occasional hours where it picks up the likes of Shippea Hill, Harling Rd, etc, that it significantly slows down.

Besides, I'm not sure of the value of a through Norwich-Cambridge-Liverpooll St service - it'd still be significantly quicker for Brandonians and Thetfordites to change at Cambridge for King's Cross. If *that* was provided with a through train, I reckon it'd be a decent market - but Cambridge-King's Cross trains have enough people on them as it is!

 

[Class 170101]

I think AC locos can only draw power south of Milton Fen Neutral Section (I.e. Cambridge).

Correct and I believe there is still a restriction between Cambridge and Hitchin.

 

[pemma]

One report claiming the franchise announcement will be made next week. Others claiming no franchise awards will be made and no ITTs will be released until after the EU referendum results are announced. I wonder if the winning bid will contain new carriages from Siemens or CAF which the Leave campaign would then use to their advantage if it was announced before the referendum results?

 

[deltic]

One report claiming the franchise announcement will be made next week. Others claiming no franchise awards will be made and no ITTs will be released until after the EU referendum results are announced. I wonder if the winning bid will contain new carriages from Siemens or CAF which the Leave campaign would then use to their advantage if it was announced before the referendum results?

I understand bids are still being assessed so imagine it will fall foul of purdah rules and not come out till after referendum

 

[lordbusiness]

On a slightly different note.... Storming run down the GEML this morning on the 0740 NRW- LST. 5 minutes early into LST, 0740- 0919, 99 minutes. Very creditable.

 

[dk1]

On a slightly different note.... Storming run down the GEML this morning on the 0740 NRW- LST. 5 minutes early into LST, 0740- 0919, 99 minutes. Very creditable.

Norwich in 90 is easily achievable now if only other trains would disappear. I've done Ipswich-Liverpool St in 53 minutes & Norwich-Ipswich non-stop takes 33. Allow 2 minutes for the Ipswich stop & you've still got 2 minutes Recovery time. With the constant growth in commuting along the GEML this simply ain't going to happen without major investment in the infrastructure to allow the InterCity to pass.

 

[grumblingalong]

On a slightly different note.... Storming run down the GEML this morning on the 0740 NRW- LST. 5 minutes early into LST, 0740- 0919, 99 minutes. Very creditable.

Did you buy a lottery ticket?

 

[transportphoto]

Norwich in 90 is easily achievable now if only other trains would disappear. I've done Ipswich-Liverpool St in 53 minutes & Norwich-Diss non-stop takes 33. Allow 2 minutes for the Ipswich stop & you've still got 2 minutes Recovery time. With the constant growth in commuting along the GEML this simply ain't going to happen without major investment in the infrastructure to allow the InterCity to pass.

Do you mean Ipswich, rather Diss, there? Norwich to Diss is, of course, around the 17 minute mark.

 

[dk1]

Do you mean Ipswich, rather Diss, there? Norwich to Diss is, of course, around the 17 minute mark.

Corrected. It was quite late in the day :roll:

 

[transportphoto]

Corrected. It was quite late in the day :roll:

No worries, I understand! Didn't mean it in a sarcastic/condescending way

 

[dk1]

No worries, I understand! Didn't mean it in a sarcastic/condescending way

Haha, didn't take it that way mate. Sometimes you read through things, post, read again & still it doesn't register. Planners seem to be banking on the Proposed station North of Chelmsford as way of getting more capacity & allowing faster trains to pass. Been on/off for years. Bit of 110 running would help but only only gives so much. Think it will be more luck than anything.

 

[Dave1987]

Haha, didn't take it that way mate. Sometimes you read through things, post, read again & still it doesn't register. Planners seem to be banking on the Proposed station North of Chelmsford as way of getting more capacity & allowing faster trains to pass. Been on/off for years. Bit of 110 running would help but only only gives so much. Think it will be more luck than anything.

You do pass anyway. The amount of times we get shoved over at Witham because of a late running intercity. It really does make passengers from none intercity stations feel like they are less important. Had lots of comments from passengers asking why intercity passengers always get preference.

 

[dk1]

You do pass anyway. The amount of times we get shoved over at Witham because of a late running intercity. It really does make passengers from none intercity stations feel like they are less important. Had lots of comments from passengers asking why intercity passengers always get preference.

It's just always been that way & makes sense to me. It's just regulating. Last few weeks have not been good for the Intercity services up road. 4 TSRs (2 very severe) between Norwich & Stowmarket has eaten around 6 minutes into each train. Thankfully it's back to 1 again this week.

 

[Dave1987]

It's just always been that way & makes sense to me. It's just regulating. Last few weeks have not been good for the Intercity services up road. 4 TSRs (2 very severe) between Norwich & Stowmarket has eaten around 6 minutes into each train. Thankfully it's back to 1 again this week.

Indeed but the perception for GE passengers is that intercity passengers are more important. Come the new franchise it will be interesting as to how they are going to squeeze another London-Norwich service per hour in, along with another Southender.

 

[dk1]

Indeed but the perception for GE passengers is that intercity passengers are more important. Come the new franchise it will be interesting as to how they are going to squeeze another London-Norwich service per hour in, along with another Southender.

I have a feeling it will be an extension of the Ipswich stopper thus serving stations in Essex allowing less stops in the Expresses. I've always thought the Southend at every 20mins sits awkwardly with everything else. Will put Southend Airport on a par with other (London) airports.

 

[3141]

Indeed but the perception for GE passengers is that intercity passengers are more important.

Isn't that true generally? Priority is likely to be given to an express with only a limited number stops, because once that train loses its path it will probably be stuck behind slower trains and lose more time.

Where the express service is provided by a different operator, as on the East Coast, the West Coast, and the Midland Main Line, the passengers may be a bit less likely to notice, or to grumble, when the slower service has to give way to a faster one. But on the GEML it's the same operator for both sorts of service, so they have more scope for whinging. Maybe that happens on the Great Western as well.

 

[Dave1987]

Isn't that true generally? Priority is likely to be given to an express with only a limited number stops, because once that train loses its path it will probably be stuck behind slower trains and lose more time.

Where the express service is provided by a different operator, as on the East Coast, the West Coast, and the Midland Main Line, the passengers may be a bit less likely to notice, or to grumble, when the slower service has to give way to a faster one. But on the GEML it's the same operator for both sorts of service, so they have more scope for whinging. Maybe that happens on the Great Western as well.

Well as far as I can see they have plenty of scope for "whinging" when their service was on time until it's delayed by 5 mins by being chucked out of the way for a late running intercity. And then their service loses it's path south of Shenfield and is delayed further, whereas the intercity is given a clear path all the way through delaying numerous other services on the way through.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have a feeling it will be an extension of the Ipswich stopper thus serving stations in Essex allowing less stops in the Expresses. I've always thought the Southend at every 20mins sits awkwardly with everything else. Will put Southend Airport on a par with other (London) airports.

Indeed if there is one thing you can guarantee, it's that you will be behind a Southender coming out of Liv St

 

[Class 170101]

Norwich in 90 is all well and good providing other stations don't suffer. I can't see the justification for a third service to Norwich and that certain smaller stations should have fewer stops but now they have their improved service it will be difficult to remove the stops.

 

[Bald Rick]

Norwich in 90 is all well and good providing other stations don't suffer. I can't see the justification for a third service to Norwich and that certain smaller stations should have fewer stops but now they have their improved service it will be difficult to remove the stops.

Well, you can't do "Norwich in 90" on the current stopping pattern of the off peak trains, even with the best accelerating new trains and a 125mph linespeed east of Shenfield.

So the choice is, taking stops out, or, err, Norwich in not quite 90.

And there's another choice - do you spend half a billion or so ripping up the track, signalling and OLE for several years to get to 125mph (to save about 4 minutes) or do you miss out Diss once an hour? What's best for East Anglia as a whole?

 

[Class 170101]

Well, you can't do "Norwich in 90" on the current stopping pattern of the off peak trains, even with the best accelerating new trains and a 125mph linespeed east of Shenfield.

So the choice is, taking stops out, or, err, Norwich in not quite 90.

And there's another choice - do you spend half a billion or so ripping up the track, signalling and OLE for several years to get to 125mph (to save about 4 minutes) or do you miss out Diss once an hour? What's best for East Anglia as a whole?

Suffolk and Norfolk shouldn't be dictating things for the rest of the GEML. the stations south of Ipswich are busier than north of it.

I think, in the main, the timetable is a good balance between the needs of all its users. However Diss, Manningtree, Kelvedon and Ingatestone should sufficee with one less call per hour compared to the current timetable.

Remember worse was proposed previously.

 

[TheEdge]

The problem with pulling Diss out is that while its not that busy a station and traffic south isn't huge there is a fairly decent load throughout the day between Norwich and Diss. Any off peak train will always carry a decent number between the two, so hoiking it out isn't really doable unless another stopper replaced it, on the notoriously crowded GEML.

 

[Bald Rick]

The problem with pulling Diss out is that while its not that busy a station and traffic south isn't huge there is a fairly decent load throughout the day between Norwich and Diss. Any off peak train will always carry a decent number between the two, so hoiking it out isn't really doable unless another stopper replaced it, on the notoriously crowded GEML.

It's not very crowded, indeed not at all crowded, between Ipswich and Norwich. What if the 'third' service was a 4 car 321 Colchester or Ipswich (or Harwich) to Norwich, calling all stations, directly behind a non stop London - Colchester - Ipswich - Norwich? Anyone?

 

[TheEdge]

It's not very crowded, indeed not at all crowded, between Ipswich and Norwich. What if the 'third' service was a 4 car 321 Colchester or Ipswich (or Harwich) to Norwich, calling all stations, directly behind a non stop London - Colchester - Ipswich - Norwich? Anyone?

Trowse bridge and junction. Massive bottleneck that even with the current service level causes problems.