grumblingalong
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I personally agree that the third Norwich should be an extension of the Ipswich terminator, would give much better northbound service to stations such as Marks Tey.
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GEML franchise 2016
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dk1
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What's the point of that? Why start another EMU from Colchester when you've got a Lst-Ips terminator you can extend? That will do the job of serving Chelmsford & other Essex stations that so annoy & slow down Intercity passengers, & still link up to Norfolk directly.
I live in Bury, so I'm a bit biased, but that rumoured extra Cambridge service is very interesting and sounds useful. I'm a bit surprised it's taken so long to introduce it, really. Shortage of DMUs?
I must say that the feeling when you see a single car 156 turn up is not a good one. Hopefully that's not what Abellio/First intend to use, considering 3 car Turbostars are standing at times!
I must say that the feeling when you see a single car 156 turn up is not a good one. Hopefully that's not what Abellio/First intend to use, considering 3 car Turbostars are standing at times!
Depends which rumours you choose to believe. While some insiders were suggesting Kelios would win East Coast, the Guardian printed a report a week before the award saying the franchise is set to go to Stagecoach/Virgin - and it did.
The rumours on Northern and TPE seemed spot-on. Not only was the rumour that Arriva would win Northern and First would win TPE were correct but the one about the new Northern DMUs either being built by CAF or Stadler was also correct.
grumblingalong
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I've heard rumours from "people high up" that First, Abellio and NX have won it. We won't know till its announced so any speculation is frankly pointless.
But we don't want your type in Norwich.
grumblingalong
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Might spice up Boringland a bit
AndyNLondon
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Well, one of those rumours must turn out to be right! (If someone separately suggests each of the bidders as the rumoured winner, they'd bound to have included the right one and the others were "only rumours"
)Yes, but those rumours were late on - earlier rumours said other things. Maybe we're late on now, but we won't know that unless somebody says!
I suppose the point is that if it started at Ipswich, it could start right behind the 'fast' Intercity, and provide a decent connection for Diss passengers in particular, such that London - Diss pax would have a better journey time with a connection than with the direct service (the slower Inter City or an extended Ipswich terminator). This would help offset the undoubted furore about losing one of their London services an hour. It would also save more than 4 cars going north of Ipswich.
306024
Established Member
Got a love the Intercity vs Outer Surburban rivalry.
Seen a rumour on social media today that Abellio have won it, anyone know if there is any legitimacy to that rumour?
A throw back to the days of Anglia Railways v First Great Eastern. You still get the impression that Ipswich Tunnel is the border.
As for the rumour, Abellio seem to be the favourite if you believe rumours. We'll know soon enough, and then the fun begins again. No doubt there will be something to surprise us.
National Express...
Based on my experience of them last time round, I sincerely hope that doesn't happen!
Mostly different people running it these days. Of course no guarantee they would be better than the last, any more that the completely different people at First would be as good. The only one you can have some certainty about is Abellio (for better or worse).
3141
Established Member
That's totally understandable, and you'd feel even worse if they proposed branding the franchise as "two". But perhaps we should bear in mind that the railway context is very different from what it was in 2005, and also that NatEx now has different management, so what happened in the past isn't necessarily an indication of how they would run it today. And the same applies to First.
I see that HH got in with the same ideas while I was typing my post. I should have got up earlier!
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Sleepy
Established Member
AGA think result won't be announced until end of June / early July now. 
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AGA think result won't be announced until end of June / early July now.
No suprises there. Purdah applies due to EU referendum.
After the referendum! (Applies in case there's another one).
deltic
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Likely to be delayed quite a while as Brexit changes the underlying economic forecasts behind the bids. EasyJet for example are already announcing a profit warning as a result of the vote and Stansted Airport traffic is obviously a major revenue earner. I imagine the winning bidder will be negotiating hard for DfT to underwrite any downturn in traffic/revenue as a result of the new situation we find ourselves in.
Is there an internal preference for a particular TOC to takeover e.g. do people still want Abellio to remain in charge, or is it felt fresh management is needed?
In fairness to the other bloke, despite it being a guess, it is an educated one. I gather the Stansted Express is a cash cow for the incumbent, and Abellio, not being UK based, may feel their bid is now untenable, perhaps.
When the franchise is awarded, is there immediate specification of new services? The DfT spec demanded at least 180 new services, will where they go be revealed immediately?
Slightly off topic, what was the speed of the old Peterbrough to LST service like back when it was a through service pre 2010? Did it compete with King's Cross better; as a Bury inhabitant currently there's at least 15 minutes in it.
Whilst I'm sure that there is some reviewing of bids following the referendum, it really needs to be before the Parliament rises on 21st July, otherwise it is extremely unlikely to happen until after 5th September when it returns. Franchises are normally only announced when the house is sitting so that statements can be made to both the Commons and Lords. Leaving it until September will be very late for a handover less than a month later and as the existing franchise has already been extended twice already a third extension is prohibited under current procurement rules. In addition I'm sure that there will be significant local pressure to announce as soon as possible as questions are already be asked in the local media about potential delays to investment spending in the region.
That said we're in uncharted territory these days, so anything could happen?
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grumblingalong
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Besides the usual dislike of management of any sort Abellio are held in good regard by most, the unions are in good terms with them currently. That said, after the way National Express handled things anyone would be better! Generally seems to be Abellio/First noone would really mind, National Express and there'd be more resignations than the shadow cabinet.
Compete?? absolutely not. PBO-KGX=45 mins. PBO-IPS-LST 2hr 30 mins.
It was before my time but as I understand it the services were well used on the LST-BSE leg, but there's not really the same demand for a through service as there is on the East Suffolk line.
Oh no, I meant from BSE, as it was far before my time when the service was cancelled.
Thank you though, I appreciate the workforce's view.
Silly question, but I assume this service was always operated by a Turbostar. BSE's platforms are fairly long especially considering the area's rail service but I don't think a rake of Mk3s and a loco would fit w/o SDO.
grumblingalong
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You're spot on 2x3 Car 170 from LST split at IPS.
306024
Established Member
Sorry, not spot on at all. They were 3 cars throughout. Passenger loadings south of Ipswich were ridiculous on some services. Fortunately the Olympics were the catalyst for their withdrawal.
Can't recall the figure of 180, but the specification includes an increase in off peak Southend services from 3 trains per hour to four. That would account for most of that figure (e.g. 1 additional train each way Mon to Fri over 12 hours = 2 trains x 12 hours x 5 days, plus Saturday over 18 hours = 2 trains x 18 hours) Add that lot up and you should get 156 services.
Also specified is two through London - Lowestoft services each way 6 days a week which is another 24. Bingo there's 180, before considering anything else.
The May 19 timetable change is the target date for these changes, so nothing exciting too soon.
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Brexit will have changed the risk profile considerably. If I were a bidder I'd definitely want some agreement about protection from Change or I'd withdraw my bid. I can't see that DfT will have any alternative but to negotiate this, and they'll probably want to do it before making a decision as it would affect MEAT.
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