Genderism

[PHILIPE]

I may upset some people for this thread and, if I do, I apologise before hand. I am beginning to wonder what things are coming as promoting equality has now gone beyond the bounds of reasoning with people seemingly dreaming up all types of things.
Trans gender people seem to be in the spotlight for discussion even to the idea of having different loos for them. There are only two types of gender, male and female and which one that relates to a person is decided by the body organs one was born with. It has always been like that and separate loos are provided suitable for each sex, male and female. One cannot be anything else. I know people have had doubts about their sexuality and many sex changes have taken place. From discussion that takes place now more people seem to have it in their heads they are trans-gender, but the main point I was going to mention is that the equality brigade seem to be peddling the issue and putting ideas into people's heads, especially younger people, that makes them doubt their sexuality. Why ? Peoples body anatomy hasn't changed since the days before humans had developed from monkeys, if true, another issue.

 

[telstarbox]

Sex and gender aren't the same thing:

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Gender-dysphoria/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Who are the 'equality brigade'?

 

[Tetchytyke]

There are only two types of gender, male and female and which one that relates to a person is decided by the body organs one was born with. It has always been like that and separate loos are provided suitable for each sex, male and female.

If only life were that simple.

Many straight people focus on male to female transgenderism, but there is plenty of female to male. And if you are a (born) female who is presenting as male you are going to get a lot of crap if you try and use the female toilets.

People who transfer male to female have it ever harder. The ones who scream "eugh you're a bloke!" and get upset if they use the female bathroom get just as upset if they use the male bathroom.

My employer has male toilets, female toilets, and gender neutral accessible toilets. It works well.

From discussion that takes place now more people seem to have it in their heads they are trans-gender, but the main point I was going to mention is that the equality brigade seem to be peddling the issue and putting ideas into people's heads, especially younger people, that makes them doubt their sexuality.

Gender identity has nothing to do with sexuality. I have a few trans friends; one who transferred female>male sexually prefers men, one who transferred female>male sexually prefers women, and one who transferred male>female sexually prefers women.

Who, by the way, are the "equality brigade"?

 

[PHILIPE]

Perhaps mistaken, but the equality brigade was the term I used to describe people pushing for separate loos.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Perhaps mistaken, but the equality brigade was the term I used to describe people pushing for separate loos.

We already have separate loos. What transgender people want is to be able to use the loo they're most comfortable with without persecution. It's very easy to call this the "equality brigade" when it's not a problem you've ever had to face.

You also seem to be very confused: gender and sexuality are not the same thing. I can't fathom how you've managed to conflate them in your opening post.

 

[Tetchytyke]

the equality brigade was the term I used to describe people pushing for separate loos.

So you mean people who think that people should be able to use the toilet of the gender they present as without getting a barrowful of crap from everyone?

There is more to gender than what dangles between your legs. You should read about David Reimer for starters.

 

[Gutfright]

The world is changing, music is changing, drugs are changing, even men and women are changing. One thousand years from now there'll be no guys and no girls, just w*nkers. Sounds great to me.

 

[DaleCooper]

The world is changing, music is changing, drugs are changing, even men and women are changing. One thousand years from now there'll be no guys and no girls, just w*nkers. Sounds great to me.

What's so good about people who wink?

 

[Jonny]

We already have separate loos. What transgender people want is to be able to use the loo they're most comfortable with without persecution. It's very easy to call this the "equality brigade" when it's not a problem you've ever had to face.

You also seem to be very confused: gender and sexuality are not the same thing. I can't fathom how you've managed to conflate them in your opening post.

That's OK up to a point, which is reached at which others would be reasonably concerned for their own safety by one's presence in the toilets. It is hardly a phobia if there are reasonable grounds to be concerned for one's safety.

 

[fowler9]

That's OK up to a point, which is reached at which others would be reasonably concerned for their own safety by one's presence in the toilets. It is hardly a phobia if there are reasonable grounds to be concerned for one's safety.

Who's safety? The transgender people or the none transgender people? I'm not sure how this comes in to it.

 

[Gutfright]

What's so good about people who wink?

The whole world's run by winkers

 

[me123]

There are only two types of gender, male and female and which one that relates to a person is decided by the body organs one was born with.

Wrong. There are two biological sexes, male (born with an XY chromosome pair) and female (born with an XX chromosome pair). Some people have abnormalities of the sex chromosomes (e.g. Turner's Syndrome - a single X chromosome, phenotypically female; Klinefelter's Syndrome - XXY, phenotypically male), but they are pretty much irrelevant to the point as they do phenotypically take the characteristics of one specific sex. Gender is a different thing, and is not binary. It is a much more fluid concept.

This may sound like I'm being pernickety but it is an important differentiation - sex is binary and assigned at birth. Gender is more fluid and is not always the same as sex.

It has always been like that and separate loos are provided suitable for each sex, male and female. One cannot be anything else.

Disagree. The vast majority of people are phenotypically either male or female, but have a mismatched gender identity (a condition called gender dysphoria). The issue with regards to toilets is that someone who identifies and presents as male but is biologically female (or vice versa) should be able to use the facilities that they are most comfortable with. I'm not entirely sure how this affects your life - personally, what I do in bathrooms (even public facilities) is private, and I have no interest in what's going on in the next cubicle.

I know people have had doubts about their sexuality and many sex changes have taken place. From discussion that takes place now more people seem to have it in their heads they are trans-gender...
but the main point I was going to mention is that the equality brigade seem to be peddling the issue and putting ideas into people's heads, especially younger people, that makes them doubt their sexuality. Why ? Peoples body anatomy hasn't changed since the days before humans had developed from monkeys, if true, another issue.

With sexuality being a rather repressed topic until quite recently, it's hardly surprising that the issues are only now coming to the fore. Trans people are not a new thing, but previously they had little option but to suppress who they really were. Now, we have a come a long way in that people can express their gender identity in a way that is comfortable to them. I think increased awareness, acceptance and support has helped people to "come out", but I would profoundly disagree with the implication that people are choosing to transition because of increased awareness. No-one chooses their gender.

I really have no idea what your point is, aside from making seemingly random and frankly incoherent jibes at the transgender community. Rest assured you haven't upset me, but you have left me somewhat baffled. Perhaps you've been inspired by the latest round of bigotry to come from the catholic church.

 

[TheKnightWho]

That's OK up to a point, which is reached at which others would be reasonably concerned for their own safety by one's presence in the toilets. It is hardly a phobia if there are reasonable grounds to be concerned for one's safety.

Transgender people are dangerous now, are they?

 

[DaleCooper]

Excellent post (#12) me123; knowledgeable, comprehensive and eloquent, I wish I had written it.

 

[DarloRich]

That's OK up to a point, which is reached at which others would be reasonably concerned for their own safety by one's presence in the toilets. It is hardly a phobia if there are reasonable grounds to be concerned for one's safety.

eh? what are you talking about?

 

[DaleCooper]

That's OK up to a point, which is reached at which others would be reasonably concerned for their own safety by one's presence in the toilets. It is hardly a phobia if there are reasonable grounds to be concerned for one's safety.

My main safety concerns in the toilets are getting myself stuck in the zip or the lid dropping unexpectedly. Unless Jonny was thinking about that recent story of a bloke who got bitten by a snake while sitting on the toilet.

 

[AlterEgo]

Edited - this was needlessly flippant. Sorry.

 

[GatwickDepress]

This thread is living proof that the unknown is feared - irrationally in this case as well! Transgender people, both MtF and FtM, are at greater risk of being assaulted or sexually assaulted in bathrooms than cisgender people after all.

 

[Tetchytyke]

My main safety concerns in the toilets are getting myself stuck in the zip or the lid dropping unexpectedly. Unless Jonny was thinking about that recent story of a bloke who got bitten by a snake while sitting on the toilet.

I'm originally from Australia, I'm mostly worried about a big spider biting me on the bum.

On a more serious note, I absolutely love the idea that a male rapist or voyeur is going to go to the trouble of buying women's clothing, make up and false breasts in order to attack someone rather than, say, just walking straight in to the bathroom.

 

[DaleCooper]

I'm originally from Australia, I'm mostly worried about a big spider biting me on the bum.

Those transgender spiders are the worst.

 

[Harbornite]

Live and let live, I say. I don't see a problem with people wanting to live as the gender they identify with because it doesn't affect me in any way. If you are so scared of trans people who are obviously a massive threat, then don't use public bogs.

 

[AlterEgo]

There are only two types of gender, male and female and which one that relates to a person is decided by the body organs one was born with.

Incorrect.

It has always been like that

Incorrect.

One cannot be anything else.

Incorrect.

I know people have had doubts about their sexuality and many sex changes have taken place.

Well, at least this is correct.

From discussion that takes place now more people seem to have it in their heads they are trans-gender

Incorrect. They "do not have it in their heads", they *are* transgender and should be wholly accepted.

but the main point I was going to mention is that the equality brigade seem to be peddling the issue and putting ideas into people's heads, especially younger people, that makes them doubt their sexuality.

"Equality brigade?" What? Do you mean trans people? Do you really think people doubt their sexuality because of contact with the "equality brigade"? (For this, read "trans people"). What makes you so insecure about this?

Peoples body anatomy hasn't changed since the days before humans had developed from monkeys, if true, another issue.

Ah, a doubter of evolution.

I understand now!

 

[miami]

In my errant youth when I was dragged out to some music halls, or "clubs" as the modern parlance goes, I recall many a time in the male bathroom when some girls would come running in due to the massive queue for the female bathroom. I don't see the problem. One office block I work with simply has individual toilet cubicles.

This talking point has risen from the far-right talk radio shows in the us, a shame it's come here. I find it particularly amusing as US toilets tend to have half-inch gaps down the sides of cubicle doors, they don't seem to be concerned with privacy in the bathroom at all.

 

[Gutfright]

On a more serious note, I absolutely love the idea that a male rapist or voyeur is going to go to the trouble of buying women's clothing, make up and false breasts in order to attack someone rather than, say, just walking straight in to the bathroom.

You seem to have confused "transgender" with "transvestite".

Not all trans women wear makeup and dresses.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You seem to have confused "transgender" with "transvestite".

No, I think you'll find I didn't, the halfwits who talk about "bathroom danger" did. Do keep up.

Not all trans women wear makeup and dresses.

They do, however, present as women. In whichever style they prefer.

 

[DarloRich]

I was at the Rocky Horror show on Saturday - god the toilets were confusing but no one was attacked and everyone seemed to be able to do thier business amicably.

Should i have been more cautious/ worried?

 

[Gutfright]

They do, however, present as women. In whichever style they prefer.

Many women -both trans and cis- choose not to dress in a way that conforms to stereotypical ideas of femininity.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Many women -both trans and cis- choose not to dress in a way that conforms to stereotypical ideas of femininity.

Cis and trans women will present as women. That doesn't mean Lindy Bop dresses and flowers in their hair. That means doing things like, oh, I don't know, using the women's toilets.

My point was mocking people who think that allowing trans women into the ladies' bathroom is somehow dangerous, as though the ladies' sign on the door is like Kryptonite to rapists and sex pests and they'll only be able to get past it by presenting as a stereotypical woman.

I'm not sure what you're point is?

 

[Blamethrower]

No, I think you'll find I didn't, the halfwits who talk about "bathroom danger" did. Do keep up.

Isn't this exactly the reason why transgenders want their own toilets though ?

Maybe the OP doesn't understand that it is medically possible to be different, he is possibly referring to those who don't have a genetic disorder.

 

[AM9]

Isn't this exactly the reason why transgenders want their own toilets though ?

Maybe the OP doesn't understand that it is medically possible to be different, he is possibly referring to those who don't have a genetic disorder.

I think that the OP is a very confused individual, who needs to do a bit of research before making assertions about gender assignment rather than firing from the hip using 'facts' derived from stereotypes.