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General Election 2017: The Results and Aftermath

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DarloRich

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All of this wibble from Paul is simply misdirection designed to reduce comment on the tawdry deal done by his sainted Tory party to cling onto power. The simple facts are that they bunged the DUP £1bn from the magic money tree that didn't exist until they needed a bumper harvest for their own purposes. The hypocrisy of it all stinks.

It also deflects attention from the simple point that in his view ( or the view of his favoured party) crucial public servants such as nurses, firemen or policemen deserve a year on year, real terms pay cut while taxes are cut for the richest. Lets not lose sight of that.
 
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Darandio

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You have already previously accused me of being a guardian of the English Language, to which I responded in my posting # 1387. I suggest that you read what my response said.

Ok, lets go back to post #1387 then.

Why you feel that someone of Polish heritage should be seen as a guardian of the English Language is beyond me.

And it's not hard at all to see why anyone would think such a thing. Whenever you see a post with even the tiniest error in the spelling, you are there like a shot. I've seen it dozens of times and it offers nothing to the thread in question other than to make you feel good for pointing out their mistake.

I'll give one example below. There are plenty more, but given you post so much and the 'Find More Posts' button limits me to 500, you'll have to take my word for it.

Who is this Chris Garyling to whom you allude?
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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All of this wibble from Paul is simply misdirection designed to reduce comment on the tawdry deal done by his sainted Tory party to cling onto power.

If we are to believe that Corbyn would "lead the nation out of the wilderness" of Conservative governmental misrule" with the stated motivation of the young to cast their votes en masse, why was this not reflected in a Blair-like landslide majority. After all, the electorate had lived under an austerity regime for years and that was the opportunity for them to rise up and to throw off the "shackles of the oppressor of the working class".

If you want to blame anyone, blame Corbyn for not being as motivational as Blair, in appealing to a much wider portion of the electorate, for the political situation that this thread labours on about.
 

najaB

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If you want to blame anyone, blame Corbyn for not being as motivational as Blair, in appealing to a much wider portion of the electorate, for the political situation that this thread labours on about.
Having not been in the UK at the time, and also being quite a bit younger, I got the impression (from afar) that the 1997 General Election wasn't so much won by the Labour Party under Tony Blair as much as it was lost by the Conservatives under what Peter Mandelson successfully managed to portray in the media as the disastrous stewardship of John Major.
 

DaleCooper

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Having not been in the UK at the time, and also being quite a bit younger, I got the impression (from afar) that the 1997 General Election wasn't so much won by the Labour Party under Tony Blair as much as it was lost by the Conservatives under what Peter Mandelson successfully managed to portray in the media as the disastrous stewardship of John Major.

Blair did have charisma and looked like a chance for a new, better kind of leader; of course we found out that he was just as bad as all the others.
 

Busaholic

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Having not been in the UK at the time, and also being quite a bit younger, I got the impression (from afar) that the 1997 General Election wasn't so much won by the Labour Party under Tony Blair as much as it was lost by the Conservatives under what Peter Mandelson successfully managed to portray in the media as the disastrous stewardship of John Major.

True, if Screaming Lord Sutch had been the only alternative then he'd have won. I never did buy the 'Things Can Only Get Better' hype, more like 'Things Can't Really Get Much Worse, Can They?', but that doesn't make for a very catchy song, and the answer was only ever 'well, maybe not, all things considered'. Perhaps if we'd known that (a) Dubya would become President of the U.S. and (b) of Blair's megalomaniac tendencies, we might just have settled for Sutch.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Interesting logic. Don't blame the government for X, blame the opposition for not getting elected.

Corbyn thinks he actually won that election. If the manifesto of the Labour Party was as well written as the Corbyn acolytes say it was, coupled to years of public sector pay restraint (now where have heard that before) and all other Conservative mis-management of every Government department for years, all items that our Socialist brethren like to highlight and all the stated Labour Party campaigning that took place, I hear naught but a deathly silence from them as to why the electorate did not flock in droves to cast their vote for the Labour Party when such an overwhelming case for a Labour government was put before the electorate.

Let us be kind and ignore the Labour Party 2015 General Election seat disaster and using the number of seats that they gained in the 2010 General Election, look at the number of seats gained by them in the 2017 General Election and ask yourself why it was that there was only a small seat increase.

We are often reminded that the electorate had suffered for years under a Conservative government, so why did not the electorate seize the opportunity offered to elect a Labour government with a healthy working majority?

Since I am viewed as both a disruptive influence and something of an irrelevance by different quarters on this particular thread, this will be my final posting upon it.
 
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sk688

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Corbyn thinks he actually won that election. If the manifesto of the Labour Party was as well written as the Corbyn acolytes say it was, coupled to years of public sector pay restraint (now where have heard that before) and all other Conservative mis-management of every Government department for years, all items that our Socialist brethren like to highlight and all the stated Labour Party campaigning that took place, I hear naught but a deathly silence from them as to why the electorate did not flock in droves to cast their vote for the Labour Party when such an overwhelming case for a Labour government was put before the electorate.

Let us be kind and ignore the Labour Party 2015 General Election seat disaster and using the number of seats that they gained in the 2010 General Election, look at the number of seats gained by them in the 2017 General Election and ask yourself why it was that there was only a small seat increase.

We are often reminded that the electorate had suffered for years under a Conservative government, so why did not the electorate seize the opportunity offered to elect a Labour government with a healthy working majority?

Given Corbyn has now risen above your beloved May in the polls, I'm pretty sure he came out of the election better ( yes he got less seats), Whereas May's popularity is dropping off a cliff, and nothing she does seems to improve it, with her response to the Grenfell tower arguably worsening her approval ratings ( whether this is deserved or not is another question)

Given that Corbyn's manifesto received near universal praise from multiple outlets , we can " be kind and ignore" that point

Labour's vote share was the highest since 1997 and the Blair landslide

Furthermore , as Ian Hislop brilliantly put on Have I Got News For You, given the low expectations of Corbyn, especially after the local elections, the fact that it did not go badly for them, was a success in itself , and they are building from the platform. The Maybot set herself a target, which she failed to achieve, hence why she did not do very well in this election, as shown by the loss of her majority

Finally it is also the case, that quite a lot of people vote based on how good their MP has been at representing their constituency rather than the party and the leaders. For example in Kensington, Victoria Borwick did not represent the views of her consitutiency well, having a highly pro Brexit position , in an area where the consensus was the exact opposite. She lost her seat to Labour.
 
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chris11256

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Given Corbyn has now risen above your beloved May in the polls, I'm pretty sure he came out of the election better ( yes he got less seats), Whereas May's popularity is dropping off a cliff, and nothing she does seems to improve it, with her response to the Grenfell tower arguably worsening her approval ratings ( whether this is deserved or not is another question)

Given that Corbyn's manifesto received near universal praise from multiple outlets , we can " be kind and ignore" that point

Labour's vote share was the highest since 1997 and the Blair landslide

Furthermore , as Ian Hislop brilliantly put on Have I Got News For You, given the low expectations of Corbyn, especially after the local elections, the fact that it did not go badly for them, was a success in itself , and they are building from the platform. The Maybot set herself a target, which she failed to achieve, hence why she did not do very well in this election, as shown by the loss of her majority

Finally it is also the case, that quite a lot of people vote based on how good their MP has been at representing their constituency rather than the party and the leaders. For example in Kensington, Victoria Borwick did not represent the views of her consitutiency well, having a highly pro Brexit position , in an area where the consensus was the exact opposite. She lost her seat to Labour.

While Corbyn did do very well, the idea they Labour are a Government in waiting is a joke. He doesn't have enough seats even with the support of every party except the Conservatives + DUP. While the Conservatives lost(Mainly May's fault), they still won in terms of seats.

The key thing is that May will not be around to fight the next election. Assuming its in 2022, that's a long time in Politics. Who knows if Corbyn will still be around, he is 68. Although as long as May isn't, we should be all good!

Personally i'm hoping we don't have another election soon. I'm starting to get sick of it.
 
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pemma

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While Corbyn did do very well, the idea they Labour are a Government in waiting is a joke. He doesn't have enough seats even with the support of every party except the Conservatives + DUP. While the Conservatives lost(Mainly May's fault), they still won in terms of seats.

The key thing is that May will not be around to fight the next election. Assuming its in 2022, that's a long time in Politics. Who knows if Corbyn will still be around, he is 68. Although as long as May isn't, we should be all good!

Personally i'm hoping we don't have another election soon. I'm starting to get sick of it.

Being able to form a government isn't just about having 50% of the seats. If Theresa May couldn't form a government then it would up to Corbyn to then try and form an interim one. Even without 50% of the seats they would still be able to get some policies through e.g. some Conservatives support axing the 1% public sector pay cap so a minority Labour government could easily go through, given it's likely the Lib Dems, SNP, PD and Greens will all support them on that. However, policies like rail nationalisation wouldn't happen.
 

sk688

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Being able to form a government isn't just about having 50% of the seats. If Theresa May couldn't form a government then it would up to Corbyn to then try and form an interim one. Even without 50% of the seats they would still be able to get some policies through e.g. some Conservatives support axing the 1% public sector pay cap so a minority Labour government could easily go through, given it's likely the Lib Dems, SNP, PD and Greens will all support them on that. However, policies like rail nationalisation wouldn't happen.

But ruling without minority is risky. Look at James Callaghan 's labour govt in the late 70s as a an example of what could go wrong
 

Butts

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But ruling without minority is risky. Look at James Callaghan 's labour govt in the late 70s as a an example of what could go wrong

Remember it well - the SNP were responsible for his demise in a vote of no confidence that brought Mrs T to the Throne :p
 

pemma

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Remember it well - the SNP were responsible for his demise in a vote of no confidence that brought Mrs T to the Throne :p

An election was held in October 1974 and the subsequent election was May 1979. There would have been an election in 1979 regardless.

You could say the Conservatives are currently in a worse situation than Labour were in 1974 - Labour had a very small majority and then lost it after by-elections, the Conservatives started without a majority and are already relying on another party. Also interesting the Scottish devolution was an issue when MPs were deciding on voting whether they had confidence in Callaghan. Is history going to repeat itself?
 

Butts

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An election was held in October 1974 and the subsequent election was May 1979. There would have been an election in 1979 regardless.

You could say the Conservatives are currently in a worse situation than Labour were in 1974 - Labour had a very small majority and then lost it after by-elections, the Conservatives started without a majority and are already relying on another party. Also interesting the Scottish devolution was an issue when MPs were deciding on voting whether they had confidence in Callaghan. Is history going to repeat itself?

True, but like Gordon Brown (later) he bottled going to the Country in the Autumn of 78 before the Winter of Discontent :idea:

Had he gone at that time he may have won...but you never know :p
 

sk688

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New poll out today shows that Jeremy Corbyn's Labour now have an eight point lead over the Tories, according to YouGov, with Labour having 46% compared to 38% for the Conservatives

Other polls show a 6 point and 2 point lead, but these were conducted at the end of June, by Opinium and ICM respectively

As always , they are just polls and could be wrong
 

chris11256

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The only issue is that at this stage polls are meaningless. Unless the conservatives want to sign their own death warrant, there won't be another election.
 

chris11256

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Not that it makes much difference unless there is another election soon. Whiles't the current government might be weak, it has enough support to win no confidence votes.
 

pemma

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True, but like Gordon Brown (later) he bottled going to the Country in the Autumn of 78 before the Winter of Discontent :idea:

Had he gone at that time he may have won...but you never know :p

Or in the case of Brown going to the polls earlier might have seen the same scenario we've just seen where the governing party lose their majority by going to the polls early. Labour's lead went down at both the 2001 and 2005 elections, so would they have lost their majority anyway? Obviously with hindsight Brown was likely to do better if he had called an election as soon as he was installed as Labour leader but Brown didn't have a crystal ball.
 

Busaholic

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David Green, one of the solicitors behind the recent challenges to the government's position on Brexit and Parliament, is to seek Judicial Review of the government's arrangements with the DUP. It will be a two-pronged attack, seeking to show that not only has the Bribery Act 2010 been contravened, but that it's contrary to the Anglo-Irish Agreement. It strikes me that the second bit might be a bit beyond the paygrade of the High Court to determine, being bound up with International Treaty Obligations, but, as per normal, what do I know?
 

najaB

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It strikes me that the second bit might be a bit beyond the paygrade of the High Court to determine, being bound up with International Treaty Obligations, but, as per normal, what do I know?
Indeed. But one does not simply walk into the Supreme Court...

[youtube]r21CMDyPuGo[/youtube]
 

Jonny

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David Green, one of the solicitors behind the recent challenges to the government's position on Brexit and Parliament, is to seek Judicial Review of the government's arrangements with the DUP. It will be a two-pronged attack, seeking to show that not only has the Bribery Act 2010 been contravened, but that it's contrary to the Anglo-Irish Agreement. It strikes me that the second bit might be a bit beyond the paygrade of the High Court to determine, being bound up with International Treaty Obligations, but, as per normal, what do I know?

The Bribery Act part is a total non-starter. Someone either doesn't understand the difference between a bribe (corrupt payment to an agent to act against the interests of his principal) and a sweetener (payment to the principal for a concession) or they are trying to make a vexatious argument. Mind you, the person responsible for bringing the review is well outside of his area of expertise.

I would also wager that the Anglo-Irish Agreement issues would be impossible to prove.
 
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