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General Unit "Argument"

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Techniquest

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180s and 222s are two very different classes of unit...I know not one soul who likes 222s, the majority of people I've asked about their opinions on 222s rate them as absolutely awful...

But then you'd know wouldn't you? Since you've got a few thousand miles on riding in 180s on various routes and a few hundred on 222s...What's that? You've not got thousands of miles on 180s? Never ridden one?

Like I said earlier, come back when you've seen how the 180 is superior, except this time when you can tell me how the 180 is superior to the 222...
 
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class 313

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180s and 222s are two very different classes of unit...I know not one soul who likes 222s, the majority of people I've asked about their opinions on 222s rate them as absolutely awful...

I know a lot of people who find 222s nice to ride apon tbh. So you can stop moaning about them as there is A LOT worse...
 

Techniquest

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Worse than 222s? Of course, but those units that are worse are unable to compete anyway! I'd rather a Voyager to a 222 any day. I'd go as far as saying I'd rather a 142 than a 222 as well...
 

thefab444

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Leccys and Turdostars are better than 450s/444s/350s/180... anyway lol

Since when has non working aircon, crap PIS and very poor introduction (esp. in the case of the 357s) been the formula for a good train? At least the Desiro family has information systems that usually work, fairly reliable and working aircon most of the time. Plus more leggy...

And on FC, 375s/377s it is completely rubbish, whereas 444 FC is pretty nice. Though, 450 FC is a bit pants.
 

class 313

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Since when has non working aircon, crap PIS and very poor introduction (esp. in the case of the 357s) been the formula for a good train? At least the Desiro family has information systems that usually work, fairly reliable and working aircon most of the time. Plus more leggy...

And on FC, 375s/377s it is completely rubbish, whereas 444 FC is pretty nice. Though, 450 FC is a bit pants.

The Desiro family is known for failing, from main train failing or PIS. Leccys IMO are a lot better than Desiros. Oh and dont get me started on Air con on Desiros!

And VXCFan

222s are better than 220/1 to travel in for many reasons. One major one being 220/1's luggage holders vibrate and rattle like dildos! So how is that better than the quiet non vibrating ones that Merdians have? Also 222s have way better seats and plugs at every inside chair, and one last thing, 222s don't stink of ****!
 
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Tom

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Loader - in case you're not interested, Desiros have a higher MPC (ie, 444 fleet) than the Lecciestar family on the whole. Desiro air con generally works due to the fail safe in there being two units in one if that makes sense.... oh, and the air cooling due to the vents in the vestibules.
 

paul1609

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Since when has non working aircon, crap PIS and very poor introduction (esp. in the case of the 357s) been the formula for a good train? At least the Desiro family has information systems that usually work, fairly reliable and working aircon most of the time. Plus more leggy...

And on FC, 375s/377s it is completely rubbish, whereas 444 FC is pretty nice. Though, 450 FC is a bit pants.

Travelling regularly on a 444 and then changing on to a 377 I'd say that 377 aircon is much better than 444 It has 2 aircon units per coach vice the 444s 1 and emergency windows. i can only ever recall seeing the windows open once.

Leg room is better on a 444 but the lack of alignment between the seats and the windows spoils it for me. 377 also have many more tables.

PIS is much better on 377s than 444s in my experience. The 444 auto announcer sounds like a stuttering darlek. The announcement that you need to move forward 5 coaches to get off as the station has a short platform 10 secs before the train stops isnt really very helpful especially given the 444s lack of modern SDO.

Cycle accomodation 6 places on a 5 coach train is much better on a 444 than the inadequate arrangements on a 377.

377s seem to accelerate quicker to me?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Loader - in case you're not interested, Desiros have a higher MPC (ie, 444 fleet) than the Lecciestar family on the whole. Desiro air con generally works due to the fail safe in there being two units in one if that makes sense.... oh, and the air cooling due to the vents in the vestibules.

Do you have a reference for that?
My latest information (from Modern Railways) says that its the other way round. Electrstars win on both ac and dc fleets.
 
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Tom

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377 acceleration is roughly on par with 444/450 acceleration. Remember that 377s are metro units mostly (all have the same traction packages) so it is easier to just go straight into 100% power, rather than easing off on a 444 (which has exactly the same power as a 450).
 

thefab444

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Well, a lot of 377 units I go on stink of crisps/BO/general foulness and are sticky, due to the aircon being broken.

The woman's voice is better on the 377s, but she doesn't give much info, apart from if you need to please note, if you want to alight at this station, you must do so from the front 3 coaches, as this station as a short platform, please ensure you are travelling in the correct part of the train. Please mind the gap between the platform, and the train. The man was a lot better on the Desiros, the woman is admittedly terrible. I hear she's invading Southern 455s as well now. Again, I agree that the "Passengers wishing to leave the trayan heeya, please move forward to the front part of the trayan." is useless, but then the guard will have announced that several times before anyway.

As for reliability, depends what sort of Electrostar we're talking about, the 357s won the Golden Spanner, but I'm talking about 377s, as this are the ones I go on most.

Anyway, I haven't even mentioned the ridiculous change in seating formations and patterns in every other carriage on 377s yet.
 

Daniel

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180s and 222s are two very different classes of unit...I know not one soul who likes 222s, the majority of people I've asked about their opinions on 222s rate them as absolutely awful...

Many Midland Mainline staff would agree with you. I still haven't found anyone who likes them, EVERYONE i've asked has preferred the HST sets.
Oh, wait, there was one person... an announcer based at St Pancras who lived in Cambridge so never used them...


Like I said earlier, come back when you've seen how the 180 is superior, except this time when you can tell me how the 180 is superior to the 222...

I must admit, having sampled both quite a few times I do much prefer Adalentes.
 

class 313

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377 acceleration is roughly on par with 444/450 acceleration. Remember that 377s are metro units mostly (all have the same traction packages) so it is easier to just go straight into 100% power, rather than easing off on a 444 (which has exactly the same power as a 450).

377s are NOT metro units! (I actually laughed when i saw that) now, 455s are.

thefab444 said:
As for reliability, depends what sort of Electrostar we're talking about, the 357s won the Golden Spanner, but I'm talking about 377s, as this are the ones I go on most.

They are the same bloody units!
 

thefab444

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377s are outer suburban units through and through. Even the 'express' /1s and /3s still have suburban door arrangements.
 
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Tom

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The 377 design is metro based - due the high acceleration and braking performance.
 

Techniquest

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Many Midland Mainline staff would agree with you. I still haven't found anyone who likes them, EVERYONE i've asked has preferred the HST sets.
Oh, wait, there was one person... an announcer based at St Pancras who lived in Cambridge so never used them...

I must admit, having sampled both quite a few times I do much prefer Adalentes.

That is good news! The 180s may be problematic (today's booked 180 on the 132x HFD - PAD was run instead by 166202 - last one for sighting this year so happy about that), but compared to a 222 in terms of comfort they win hands-down. Only on 222s will you find seriously uncomfortable seats, even in First Class, only in 222s will you find the toilets DO stink like bulls**t, only in 222s will you find your drink spills all over the table due to excessive vibrations (NEVER had that problem on a Voyager of any sort)...
 

class 313

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That is good news! The 180s may be problematic (today's booked 180 on the 132x HFD - PAD was run instead by 166202 - last one for sighting this year so happy about that), but compared to a 222 in terms of comfort they win hands-down. Only on 222s will you find seriously uncomfortable seats, even in First Class, only in 222s will you find the toilets DO stink like bulls**t, only in 222s will you find your drink spills all over the table due to excessive vibrations (NEVER had that problem on a Voyager of any sort)...

PMSL Only would Julian will you find who likes a Voyager over a Meridian.

The 377 design is metro based - due the high acceleration and braking performance.

Well then, 444s arnt express units either....
 

Daniel

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only in 222s will you find the toilets DO stink like bulls**t, only in 222s will you find your drink spills all over the table due to excessive vibrations (NEVER had that problem on a Voyager of any sort)...


Oooooh, worked a 9-car once, only had 3 toilets on the whole train that weren't locked out of use, and one of those OOU had backflow!! :lol:
 

Julian G

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the Heull Trains 222 are comfy, better than the Mallards [in my opinion]
 

David

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I've split all this from the Sunbathing In Southampton" thread in the story forum. Can you please carry on this argument/discussion without insutlin or flaming other members please?
 

Max

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I find the 222s to be very nice trains to be honest, and I think the majority of Hull's population would agree with me to be honest! They are vastly superior to the 170s that used to work Hull Trains' services (which were more like suburban trains!). I don't dislike 170s but they weren't suitable for 3 hour intercity journeys in my opinion.

I haven't travelled on a 180 before so I can't comment, but I know that the 222s have been hugely more reliable than the 180s and they probably do more mileage as well (especially as Hull Trains are lacking a unit at present!). 222s are so much better than Voyagers - they have a decent colourscheme (white and green on HT as opposed to sick brown and red on Voyagers!), the seats are vastly superior in size and comfort and they are a much better ride.
 

class 313

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I haven't travelled on a 180 before so I can't comment, but I know that the 222s have been hugely more reliable than the 180s and they probably do more mileage as well (especially as Hull Trains are lacking a unit at present!). 222s are so much better than Voyagers - they have a decent colourscheme (white and green on HT as opposed to sick brown and red on Voyagers!), the seats are vastly superior in size and comfort and they are a much better ride.

You also forgot to mention 222s dont rattle so much you think the luggage racks are gunna fall ontop of you! ^^
 

devon_metro

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That is good news! The 180s may be problematic (today's booked 180 on the 132x HFD - PAD was run instead by 166202 - last one for sighting this year so happy about that), but compared to a 222 in terms of comfort they win hands-down. Only on 222s will you find seriously uncomfortable seats, even in First Class, only in 222s will you find the toilets DO stink like bulls**t, only in 222s will you find your drink spills all over the table due to excessive vibrations (NEVER had that problem on a Voyager of any sort)...

:shock: what sort of Vomiters do you travel on?
 

RJ

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I find that 377 aircon is usually cooler than that on 450s. As for 377s, I wouldn't put or dispute a particular label attatched to them, they are fairly versatile, there are 4 sub classes after all. Some have 3 + 2 high density seating throughout, some have 2 + 2 + table seats at the ends of the coaches with the high density in the centre, whilst others have 2 + 2 seating and tables throughout.
 

Lewisham2221

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That is good news! The 180s may be problematic (today's booked 180 on the 132x HFD - PAD was run instead by 166202 - last one for sighting this year so happy about that), but compared to a 222 in terms of comfort they win hands-down. Only on 222s will you find seriously uncomfortable seats, even in First Class, only in 222s will you find the toilets DO stink like bulls**t, only in 222s will you find your drink spills all over the table due to excessive vibrations (NEVER had that problem on a Voyager of any sort)...
On the other hand, I've never had any of thsoe problems on a 222.....
 
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