George Floyd Death and the Wider Consequences

[LAX54]

Gone with the Wind I can understand but Little Britain I'm not about (never watched it). I think the warning on Tom and Jerry is probably a sensible way of going about it.

Then there is Love thy Neighbour !

 

[WelshBluebird]

So the stuff about Little Britain being removed I am less comfortable with. For two reasons:

1. There wasn't a discussion about it. It just happened. With the Colston statue etc, there has been talk about how problematic it was for a long long time, and its removal was basically a act of defiance from a people who were basically just ignored. Especially when the council couldn't even get a second plaque to spell out what Colston did put in place because of local politics. Removing Little Britain etc seems to have come out of nowhere.
2. It further shows the issue with streaming vs owning. If you have it on DVD etc, then you have it and it can't be taken away. But on a streaming service - it isn't yours and it can be removed at the whim of anyone for any reason.

However, I do think there is another side of it:

1. Looking back at some of the sketches now, some of them have dated really badly. Almost to the extent of I am surprised that it was aired like that and just are not funny anymore.
2. The sketches do have an affect on people - trans people do get idiots shouting "I'm a lady" at them and gay people do get the whole "only gay in the village" thrown at them, with those shouting the comments thinking they are somehow being original or funny. Even though those sketches were not intended to offend those people, they have been taken by some idiots as permission to do just that. Hell we've seen it with Al Murrays pub landlord too with idiots thinking that the character's views on things like immigration are his actual real views.
3. And in terms of the streaming angle, as I said earlier, anything can be removed from streaming services at any time for any reason. You don't own it. Plenty of things are removed every month from Netflix, iPlayer etc without anyone complaining.

To be honest, I am not sure of where I stand with it. Though as I said, it does make me somewhat uncomfortable in a way the removal of Colston's statue did not.

 

[yorksrob]

If you look at any comedy, some parts of it will date worse than others. This just smacks of caving into the loudest shouters.

 

[Bantamzen]

If you look at any comedy, some parts of it will date worse than others. This just smacks of caving into the loudest shouters.

Worse still, it is boss level virtue signalling. How many British comedies will be falling under the same axe because they have become dated?

 

[yorksrob]

Worse still, it is boss level virtue signalling. How many British comedies will be falling under the same axe because they have become dated?

Indeed. The BBC should have better things to do than making empty gestures.

 

[WelshBluebird]

If you look at any comedy, some parts of it will date worse than others. This just smacks of caving into the loudest shouters.

Agreed with the first bit. Though I think there is a difference between the comedy itself dating and no longer being funny and the general opinion of the topic of which the comedy is about changing so that the comedy feels dated. I also think there is a degree of responsibility too - if idiots start abusing people by quoting lines from your comedy, then maybe you got your comedy a little wrong. Not to say that necessitates it being wiped off streaming platforms, but I think we should be able to have mature conversations about how possibly some of the jokes have done more harm than not in some cases. This isn't a clear black and white issue, there are degrees of nuance to it that tend to get lost in social media and on forums like this. As I said this is certainly less clear to me than the Colston statue stuff.

But the second bit, as I said in my post above, I am not sure I agree. Certainly I haven't seen any "loud shouters" about Little Britain recently, and given the echo chamber effects of social media I am probably in the echo chamber that would have seen such shouts. What I do know is that some of the people behind the show (including Matt Lucas) have spoken out against some of the things that they did in the show. I think they just saw what was going on in the world and someone made a rushed decision in the hope you getting away without any bad PR because of it - ironically enough that decision will specifically bring bad PR compared to if we could have a mature conversation about these things.

 

[yorksrob]

Agreed with the first bit. Though I think there is a difference between the comedy itself dating and no longer being funny and the general opinion of the topic of which the comedy is about changing so that the comedy feels dated. I also think there is a degree of responsibility too - if idiots start abusing people by quoting lines from your comedy, then maybe you got your comedy a little wrong. Not to say that necessitates it being wiped off streaming platforms, but I think we should be able to have mature conversations about how possibly some of the jokes have done more harm than not in some cases. This isn't a clear black and white issue, there are degrees of nuance to it that tend to get lost in social media and on forums like this. As I said this is certainly less clear to me than the Colston statue stuff.

But the second bit, as I said in my post above, I am not sure I agree. Certainly I haven't seen any "loud shouters" about Little Britain recently, and given the echo chamber effects of social media I am probably in the echo chamber that would have seen such shouts. What I do know is that some of the people behind the show (including Matt Lucas) have spoken out against some of the things that they did in the show. I think they just saw what was going on in the world and someone made a rushed decision in the hope you getting away without any bad PR because of it - ironically enough that decision will specifically bring bad PR compared to if we could have a mature conversation about these things.

I think that having a mature discussion about removing statues of slave traders is one thing.

Analysing to death a sketch show that was of it's time, but in the large part is still funny to many people (I feel old saying that as I still consider it quite new) is quite another. I find it a lot funnier than a lot of what passes for comedy these days. Recognise it for what it is, and if you don't like it, don't watch it.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

This cancel culture, rapidly increasing from BLM and the Minneapolis incident, has got me thinking.

I have belief that all lives do matter, not just black/BAME ones, and social mobility is indeed important especially in America where social problems are worse than here (not saying that we don’t have any) but this hysteria seen in Bristol & London just smacks of globalist, left wing, social justice, bandwagon jumping & social media attention seeking instead of protesting peacefully & focusing on racial injustice. This is really people, never accepting Brexit & Donald Trump, exploiting the Minneapolis incident to push a globalist agenda with the protesters being useful idiots for this cause.

Comedy could get banned and everyone becoming afraid to say the wrong thing etc, thus becoming harder to forge relationships physically with people only communicating online - thus people are seen sitting at tables all looking at their mobiles than talking with each other. This paints a really depressing future that we may not be allowed to smile or laugh etc as many Gen Z are walking around with a scowl on their faces, ready to take offence at anything said to them. This is a future I really do not want.

I am ready to admit I didn’t have it easy in life (I’m not the only one) as I have Aspergers & a disability so have experienced social problems which I why I just see through this “social justice agenda” as b-s. I would wholeheartedly embrace this if I believe people are being genuine and prepared to change things for the good but I just see all this as narcissism, peer pressure & attention seeking so they can show off and say they did this on social media instead of really being selfless & altruistic.

I have seen these so called social justice warriors shy away or run in the opposite direction when they realise or see my disability hence my scepticism. The other people who actually did help me, just did it out of obligation or kindness & didn’t try to preach or push empty platitudes or let on how they’ve given up on meat and suggest I should do as well etc.

I am in my late 30s, my wife and I were thinking about having kids but with the way things are going, a part of me don’t wish to have them as I don’t want to bring them into a world where it is can be hard to meet anyone, more mental health issues as people are cruel to each other, they could be like me which I don’t want them to suffer the same problems like I did.

I am concerned about the education system which teaches the young in “group thought”, instead of encouraging them to be themselves, having their own thoughts & beliefs and accepting each other, that we are seeing this mob mentality and safe spaces. I would like to nurture my children to be free thinkers instead of “following the flock” “monkey see, monkey do” and I am scared of disliking and becoming estranged with my children if they do things without thinking just because “everyone’s doing it”.

Another part of me is aching to have children because I want them to have things I didn’t have but this threat of cancel culture could brainwash them, I don’t know where to go with this and risk letting my wife down.

Sorry for the long post, I just want to vent and don’t have anyone who I could freely express this to.

 

[WelshBluebird]

and if you don't like it, don't watch it.

I mean that is easy to say when you don't have people abusing quoting lines from it to abuse you (I speak as someone who hasn't experienced it, but knows people who has).

 

[WelshBluebird]

This cancel culture, rapidly increasing from BLM and the Minneapolis incident, has got me thinking.

I have belief that all lives do matter, not just black/BAME ones, and social mobility is indeed important especially in America where social problems are worse than here (not saying that we don’t have any) but this hysteria seen in Bristol & London just smacks of globalist, left wing, social justice, bandwagon jumping & social media attention seeking instead of protesting peacefully & focusing on racial injustice. This is really people, never accepting Brexit & Donald Trump, exploiting the Minneapolis incident to push a globalist agenda with the protesters being useful idiots for this cause.

Comedy could get banned and everyone becoming afraid to say the wrong thing etc, thus becoming harder to forge relationships physically with people only communicating online - thus people are seen sitting at tables all looking at their mobiles than talking with each other. This paints a really depressing future that we may not be allowed to smile or laugh etc as many Gen Z are walking around with a scowl on their faces, ready to take offence at anything said to them. This is a future I really do not want.

I am ready to admit I didn’t have it easy in life (I’m not the only one) as I have Aspergers & a disability so have experienced social problems which I why I just see through this “social justice agenda” as b-s. I would wholeheartedly embrace this if I believe people are being genuine and prepared to change things for the good but I just see all this as narcissism, peer pressure & attention seeking so they can show off and say they did this on social media instead of really being selfless & altruistic.

I have seen these so called social justice warriors shy away or run in the opposite direction when they realise or see my disability hence my scepticism. The other people who actually did help me, just did it out of obligation or kindness & didn’t try to preach or push empty platitudes or let on how they’ve given up on meat and suggest I should do as well etc.

I am in my late 30s, my wife and I were thinking about having kids but with the way things are going, a part of me don’t wish to have them as I don’t want to bring them into a world where it is can be hard to meet anyone, more mental health issues as people are cruel to each other, they could be like me which I don’t want them to suffer the same problems like I did.

I am concerned about the education system which teaches the young in “group thought”, instead of encouraging them to be themselves, having their own thoughts & beliefs and accepting each other, that we are seeing this mob mentality and safe spaces. I would like to nurture my children to be free thinkers instead of “following the flock” “monkey see, monkey do” and I am scared of disliking and becoming estranged with my children if they do things without thinking just because “everyone’s doing it”.

Another part of me is aching to have children because I want them to have things I didn’t have but this threat of cancel culture could brainwash them, I don’t know where to go with this and risk letting my wife down.

Sorry for the long post, I just want to vent and don’t have anyone who I could freely express this to.

So I don't have time to reply to all of that, but just a couple of points I do want to reply to:

1. All lives matter - the problem here is that there are many reasons why such a phrase is an issue. Partly because it is used by actual racists who think that all lives do not matter (it is called dogwhisliting, they say something that sounds acceptable but actually mean something a lot less acceptable). But also because it is like showing up to a funeral where someone is talking about their deceased relative and then you just talking about other people who have died instead. When people say Black Lives Matter, they don't mean "Only black lives matter". The phrase means "Black lives matter too".
2. The Bristol stuff was a specific removal of a statue, not mindless violence, and it was a statue that should have at the very least recognised his slave trading history, but didn't because of Tories and other interested parties. If the Merchant Venturers and the local Tories hadn't tried to wrangle the wording of a second plaque explaining the history Colston had with the slave trade, it is likely the statue would still be standing!
3. "Social Justice Warrior". Oh dear. I daren't even ask but I will, what do you mean by that and why is caring about social justice a bad thing?
4. "Globalist agenda" - please please please tell me you don't pay attention to Infowars? Because that is a phrase they use a lot. Hell, all of the phrases you use in your post are phrases the alt right use a lot (this, SJW, cancel culture, "not accepting Trump and Brexit", your post is pretty much alt right bingo!). If you do, then this conversation is pointless. What exactly do you mean by "Globalist agenda"?
5. Funny you mention education. The removal of Colston's statue has done more to educate much of Britain about our involvement in the slave trade than the statue standing did. This is a part of our history that we are generally not taught. Not in school nor as adults. Maybe we should be? Maybe, if people were taught what happened in our history, we would actually see less a chasm between people's opinions. Take Churchill, in school we are pretty much only taught about WW2 with him, "never surrender" and him being a war hero and all. But there is so much more history to the man, much of it unpleasant. Maybe if people were taught both sides of the man, we would be able to have a much more mature and understanding conversation than some people thinking him as a hero, and others as a racist. Hell, even with Thatcher, the only history I knew of her for years and years was because of growing up in South Wales, but of course she did do some good for the country (as much as it pains me to say!) so maybe teach that too? Give people a full and rounded history of our country, warts and uglyness included! Maybe ask yourself why aren't we thought those kind of things?

Where I am less comfortable, and I have said in my posts above, is with things like Little Britain being taken away (though I can understand why) and things like Churchill's statue being vandalised (though as I have said above, I think we do need to do better educating people about our own history). There is nuance to be had here. Not everyone who is on the BLM "side" so to speak also wants everything remotely offensive banned or want to "brainwash" kids. I can support the pulling down of Colston's statue but oppose the mass removal of other statues without due process.
Labeling those supporting the BLM protests over the last week or two as "globalist, left wing, social justice, bandwagon jumping & social media attention seeking" does you no good, as the group is as nuanced as the individuales involved. Sure, some will be part of that group who opposes anything they disagree with, some will be part of a group just there for violence and chaos, but many are just there to peacefully protest.

 

[Gooner18]

Should nelson Mandela statue be pulled down as well ? As he is a convicted terrorist/ murderer ?
where does it stop ?

 

[Tetchytyke]

I've said thison the other discussion, but it fits here too.

But what is inequality based on race, if not racism?

Racism doesn't have to be deliberate, but it is still racism.

White male managers who give promotions to other white men because they subconsciously think they'll "fit in" better than the BAME candidate are being racist, even if they don't mean to be, and even if they'd be mortified at being seen as racist.

Police who pull over a young black man in a BMW but let the 50yo white man go past are being racist, even if they think that they're being "objective" about the chances of criminality.

If you don't call it what it is, it won't change. BAME people have played nicely yet discrimination levels in workplace recruitment are unchanged since the 1960s: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...hnic-britons-face-shocking-job-discrimination

Clearly pussyfooting around the issue, so as to protect the sensibilities of white men, is quite literally not working.

I have belief that all lives do matter, not just black/BAME ones

Nobody within the BLM movement is arguing that only black lives matter. The movement is Black Lives Matter too. Responding to that with "but what about all lives?" is, in many cases, simply a way of putting black people in their place. It's dogwhistling.

Those of us who are literal in our words and thoughts won't appreciate this nuance; who could argue against all lives mattering equally? But the nuance is there. It's called dogwhistling; like when you whistle for your dog, most people just hear a noise but your dog hears a command just for them.

Saying "what about all lives?" is akin to rocking up at a stranger's funeral and asking the mourners "what about my feelings?".

 

[Geezertronic]

Bo Selecta has been removed from streaming services as well apparently. The Simpsons will be next due to their "stereo-typical" portrayal of Apu (who is voiced by a white guy - as is Cleveland Brown from Family Guy) as that has apparently already caused someone some outrage. There's a massive amount of virtue signalling going on by rioters, looters, politicians who kneel etc... seems the reasons for the protests and the peaceful protesters are being neglected in favour of this virtue signalling and potential for political gain

Saying "what about all lives?" is akin to rocking up at a stranger's funeral and asking the mourners "what about my feelings?".

I've seen some ridiculous memes going round saying nonsense like that. They have no relevance and are just noise for the sake of making noise.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Bo Selecta has been removed from streaming services as well apparently. The Simpsons will be next due to their "stereo-typical" portrayal of Apu (who is voiced by a white guy - as is Cleveland Brown from Family Guy) as that has apparently already caused someone some outrage.

Bo Selecta is still on Amazon Prime from what I can see. It has however been removed from All 4.
Worth saying that the reasoning is more nuanced than the other stuff. Specifically that the show mocked and made racist stereotypes of a real person whose kids were then bullied because of it.

Any evidence that the Simpsons is going to be removed?

There's a massive amount of virtue signalling going on by rioters, looters, politicians who kneel etc

Err equating politicians who kneel with looters? What?

I've seen some ridiculous memes going round saying nonsense like that. They have no relevance and are just noise for the sake of making noise.

They are absolutely relevant.
The "black lives matter" phrase does not mean "only black lives matter". It means "black lives matter too".
So what purpose does saying "all lives matter" in response to that?
When the phrase you are using is also used by those who are racists as a dogwhistling tactic, you may want to rethink the phrase.

 

[Geezertronic]

Any evidence that the Simpsons is going to be removed?

No, just based on what has been removed I wouldn't be surprised if the criticism over Apu raises its head again

Err equating politicians who kneel with looters? What?

You really need to read what is displayed on the screen before commenting if that is your comment on that quote.

They are absolutely relevant.
The "black lives matter" phrase does not mean "only black lives matter". It means "black lives matter too".
So what purpose does saying "all lives matter" in response to that?
When the phrase you are using is also used by those who are racists as a dogwhistling tactic, you may want to rethink the phrase.

I agree that the phase "All Lives Matter" - which incidentally is not a phrase I believe I have used unless you can quote me a post I have made with it in (if you can't I refer you to my comment above) is being misused by some. My comment referred to specific memes which are ridiculous in their nature - one of which was quoted above. They should also be considered dogwhistling tactics as the point thy try to make is irrelevant and also a dogwhistling tactic as you put it

 

[Bobdogs]

After the destruction of Edward Colston’s statue in Bristol the removal of other statues has now started, looks like the mob have won, a sad day for British history. Why not go all the way and re-write the history books and censor the parts of history that people don’t like?

Philanthropists like Colson probably built thousands of houses some of which may be occupied by protesters. Will they be moving out rather than living in them due to their connection with slavery? Are they going to insist that all parks, gardens and country houses be removed because of such connections?
I see that Liverpool University have renamed a building that mentioned Gladstone. Are they going to avail themselves of his huge library in Cheshire?
With regard to the withdrawal of Little Britain by the BBC, how about they ban some of the things that I and I am sure many others find offensive, for instance rap music with inflammatory, degrading lyrics which champion violence and sometimes racism.

 

[najaB]

Philanthropists like Colson probably built thousands of houses some of which may be occupied by protesters. Will they be moving out rather than living in them due to their connection with slavery? Are they going to insist that all parks, gardens and country houses be removed because of such connections?

A statue is society's way of saying "this is someone we look up to". He was only able to be a philanthropist because he profited on the slave trade. So that's a tick in the 'plus' column, and a bigger tick in the 'negative' column. Does that make him worthy of a statue? Should people be looking at his statue and saying "One day, maybe I'll be just like him"?

 

[Bedpan]

This cancel culture, rapidly increasing from BLM and the Minneapolis incident, has got me thinking.

I have belief that all lives do matter, not just black/BAME ones, and social mobility is indeed important especially in America where social problems are worse than here (not saying that we don’t have any) but this hysteria seen in Bristol & London just smacks of globalist, left wing, social justice, bandwagon jumping & social media attention seeking instead of protesting peacefully & focusing on racial injustice. This is really people, never accepting Brexit & Donald Trump, exploiting the Minneapolis incident to push a globalist agenda with the protesters being useful idiots for this cause.

Comedy could get banned and everyone becoming afraid to say the wrong thing etc, thus becoming harder to forge relationships physically with people only communicating online - thus people are seen sitting at tables all looking at their mobiles than talking with each other. This paints a really depressing future that we may not be allowed to smile or laugh etc as many Gen Z are walking around with a scowl on their faces, ready to take offence at anything said to them. This is a future I really do not want.

I am ready to admit I didn’t have it easy in life (I’m not the only one) as I have Aspergers & a disability so have experienced social problems which I why I just see through this “social justice agenda” as b-s. I would wholeheartedly embrace this if I believe people are being genuine and prepared to change things for the good but I just see all this as narcissism, peer pressure & attention seeking so they can show off and say they did this on social media instead of really being selfless & altruistic.

I have seen these so called social justice warriors shy away or run in the opposite direction when they realise or see my disability hence my scepticism. The other people who actually did help me, just did it out of obligation or kindness & didn’t try to preach or push empty platitudes or let on how they’ve given up on meat and suggest I should do as well etc.

I am in my late 30s, my wife and I were thinking about having kids but with the way things are going, a part of me don’t wish to have them as I don’t want to bring them into a world where it is can be hard to meet anyone, more mental health issues as people are cruel to each other, they could be like me which I don’t want them to suffer the same problems like I did.

I am concerned about the education system which teaches the young in “group thought”, instead of encouraging them to be themselves, having their own thoughts & beliefs and accepting each other, that we are seeing this mob mentality and safe spaces. I would like to nurture my children to be free thinkers instead of “following the flock” “monkey see, monkey do” and I am scared of disliking and becoming estranged with my children if they do things without thinking just because “everyone’s doing it”.

Another part of me is aching to have children because I want them to have things I didn’t have but this threat of cancel culture could brainwash them, I don’t know where to go with this and risk letting my wife down.

Sorry for the long post, I just want to vent and don’t have anyone who I could freely express this to.

Starting at the end, don't apologise, that's largely what the forum is for and it has been good to read your point of view! I must say though that I found that what you wrote about having children really made me think. I really do appreciate your feelings about bringing up kids in this day and age, but what you said and what the events of the last couple of weeks have made me realise is that the vast majority of black people will probably have been thinking exactly the same feelings since time immemorial, simply because they are black, and there is the tragedy of racism. That people (white people like me) are starting to wake up and smell the coffee is the silver lining that has come from the murder of George Floyd: I have never thought that I live in a racist country, but having thought about it in a bit more detail, now I'm not so sure.There are all sorts of examples, mostly covert, when you think hard enough. I'm not sure that Brexit wasn't largely a product of xenophobia.

That said I was upset by the complete disrespect of social distancing at some of the rallies at the weekend, particularly in London. The fact that people who were there didn't mind running the risk of spreading the virus which would result in more deaths, inevitably of older people or those with underlying conditions rather then the demonstrators themselves, was appalling.


Do have kids, a lot of things have changed in my lifetime sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse, and that will continue to be the case probably for ever.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Nobody within the BLM movement is arguing that only black lives matter. The movement is Black Lives Matter too. Responding to that with "but what about all lives?" is, in many cases, simply a way of putting black people in their place. It's dogwhistling.

I don't think it is (for the most part) dogwhistling, and I'd say you're rather stereotyping those people who are calling out about all lives matter. Some may be dog-whistling, but certainly not all. Looking on Twitter, many are using #AllLivesMatter to make perfectly reasonable points.

The thing is, sure, the movement and the #blacklivesmatter hashtag is intended to mean black lives matter too. And that's doubtless what is intended by most people who are campaigning on this and going to demonstrations. But that's not how it's coming across to a lot of people. A lot of people are perfectly well aware of the statistics that show police in the US mainly kill white people, and will have noticed the discrepancy between how - when a white person is killed - usually, very few people pay any attention; but when the person killed is black, there often tends to be a very strong reaction by many groups, making out that this proves racism is rife and black people are being killed by the score, and bringing out the #blacklivesmatter tag (Of course, to be fair, sometimes, racism will have been an issue). Add to that the hints by some people that white people shouldn't really be getting any say in this because they haven't faced discrimination, and it's not hard to see why quite a few reasonable people who are not racists and are not from the far right would start to want to emphasize that all lives matter.

I actually do think that pushing #alllivesmatter right now does seem a bit insensitive - but I'm also pretty sure part of the reason people are doing that is because some of those pushing #blacklivesmatter haven't thought through the sensitivities of how their message might come across.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Philanthropists like Colson probably built thousands of houses some of which may be occupied by protesters. Will they be moving out rather than living in them due to their connection with slavery? Are they going to insist that all parks, gardens and country houses be removed because of such connections?
I see that Liverpool University have renamed a building that mentioned Gladstone. Are they going to avail themselves of his huge library in Cheshire?

*Slave traders like Colston you mean.
Yes, they built lots of buildings, although these actually have other important purposes, as you say like being places for people to live, etc etc. Statues, however, are there to celebrate or commemorate these people. No other purpose - maybe education, but that isn't really the case as I'll go on to mention, and education can still happen when the state is taken down and put in a museum.
Yes these people also did some good (although for many, their charity only applied to you if you were a certain type of person - often white and christian).
However the plaques on the statues rarely mention any of the unsavoury points in attempt to whitewash and sanatise their history, because yes, it is uncomfortable to think about the fact that much of some of our cities were built off the back of human beings being sold. The fact that some, including some Tory councillers, feel that calling out the fact that some of these people were involved in the slave trade is "unfair" says an awful lot about them IMO.

A lot of people are perfectly well aware of the statistics that show police in the US mainly kill white people, and will have noticed the discrepancy between how - when a white person is killed - usually, very few people pay any attention; but when the person killed is black, there often tends to be a very strong reaction by many groups, making out that this proves racism is rife and black people are being killed by the score, and bringing out the #blacklivesmatter tag

Given the incident with the elderly gentleman who was pushed in such a way he was hospitalised by the police in the states, I think BLM people are more than aware of police brutality and injustice on both sides of the race divide! And yes, there is an issue with the way the police act in general over there, something that the BLM group is trying to actually draw attention to.

 

[Bedpan]

# Old lives matter, but in a Covid-19 sense (including some BLM demonstrators, you wouldn't think so. I was very irritated by a demonstrator on the news saying that they weren't concerned about social distancing because they didn't care if they caught it, and justifying lack of distancing and masks on the grounds that racism had been going on longer than Covid.

 

[WelshBluebird]

# Old lives matter, but in a Covid-19 sense (including some BLM demonstrators, you wouldn't think so. I was very irritated by a demonstrator on the news saying that they weren't concerned about social distancing because they didn't care if they caught it, and justifying lack of distancing and masks on the grounds that racism had been going on longer than Covid.

To be fair, based on the pictures I have seen and the people who I have talked to who were at the protests, there was more social distancing, more mask wearing, more hand washing / sanitising and more general caring for other people's health than there was when tens of thousands of people headed to the beach the week before, or than when Coventry City fans decided to celebrate their promotion last night. Whilst I agree there is an issue there given the current situation, you can't just take aim at one group of people if that is your genuine concern.

 

[Tetchytyke]

A lot of people are perfectly well aware of the statistics that show police in the US mainly kill white people

The US police have killed 370 white people but 393 Black and Hispanic people in 2019.

Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

So people "may well be aware" of it, but they seem to be aware of something that simply isn't true on raw numbers, never mind numbers adjusted for the relative population demographics (the US police shoot 30 black people per million and 23 Hispanic people per million, but only 12 white people per million).

So given black people are nearly three times more likely to be shot dead by the police than a white person, it's surely fair to bring race into it?

Of course it's hard for the right-wing #alllivesmatter lot to simultaneously argue that the US police are not trigger-happy violent thugs *and* that they needlessly shoot white people too. So they don't seem to try. I don't see many #alllivesmatter fans decry police brutality in all its forms, instead choosing to focus on whether Floyd was a criminal.

 

[Bedpan]

To be fair, based on the pictures I have seen and the people who I have talked to who were at the protests, there was more social distancing, more mask wearing, more hand washing / sanitising and more general caring for other people's health than there was when tens of thousands of people headed to the beach the week before, or than when Coventry City fans decided to celebrate their promotion last night. Whilst I agree there is an issue there given the current situation, you can't just take aim at one group of people if that is your genuine concern.

Many protests were fine. My daughter was at the Oxford one on Sunday and masks were worn and the 2m rule observed. No problems with that. Re heading to the beach, that was worse in some ways because the demonstrators were congregating for a noble cause, whereas there was no noble cause associated with visiting a beach....and I am sure there are plenty of beaches to go round if people chose to use them rather than congregating at specific locations. On the other hand there was more distancing between people at the beaches (or at least until some idiots started hurling themselves off cliffs at Durdle Door and then had to make space for two or three ambulance helicopters to land) whereas the London and Manchester demonstrations had people packed as tightly together as they used to be on the terraces at a first division football match in the old days.

I hadn't heard about Coventry fans until you told me. I could see that happening, and the same outside grounds where EPL matches are going to be played. The whole thing seems to be breaking down at the moment, too soon according to the scientists. Thanks to our government.

It is all very worrying, I suppose I will just have to resign myself to another bout of isolation if the selfish uncaring acts of a few cause a second wave. But how many of them give a toss if a few hundred/thousand more people, the vast majority of whom will be elderly, die?

 

[GB]

With all these tv shows now being banned or taken off the air, will we see the same for the dross that is ”White Chicks”. Or is that acceptable because it’s making fun of white people?

 

[WelshBluebird]

With all these tv shows now being banned or taken off the air, will we see the same for the dross that is ”White Chicks”. Or is that acceptable because it’s making fun of white people?

None of these shows have been banned for crying out loud.
The most that has happened is that some have been removed from streaming platforms.
You can still buy them if you want to.

With white chicks, I have never heard of it before but I have been informed by my Twitter feed that it isn't actually available on any UK streaming services, and based on a qucik google, that seems to be correct.
It is available to buy or rent, as all of the other things still are. Though given how badly the film seems to have been reviewed, I'd be surprised if anyone did want to do so, and if anything people complaining about it right now may cause some kind of streisand effect with it!
It's also important to note that there is a slight difference between blackface and whiteface in terms of which one specifically drawers on centuries of oppression and racism, and one does not. But I don't find either acceptable!

Many protests were fine. My daughter was at the Oxford one on Sunday and masks were worn and the 2m rule observed. No problems with that. Re heading to the beach, that was worse in some ways because the demonstrators were congregating for a noble cause, whereas there was no noble cause associated with visiting a beach....and I am sure there are plenty of beaches to go round if people chose to use them rather than congregating at specific locations. On the other hand there was more distancing between people at the beaches whereas the London and Manchester demonstrations had people packed as tightly together as they used to be on the terraces at a first division football match in the old days.

I hadn't heard about Coventry fans until you told me. I could see that happening, and the same outside grounds where EPL matches are going to be played. The whole thing seems to be breaking down at the moment, too soon according to the scientists. Thanks to our government.

It is all very worrying, I suppose I will just have to resign myself to another bout of isolation if the selfish uncaring acts of a few cause a second wave. But how many of them give a toss if a few hundred/thousand more people, the vast majority of whom will be elderly, die?

In terms of football - I am not surprised at all.
I don't think fans will necessarily congregate around grounds when games restart, but I do think that something like a promotion celebration was pretty obvious.

A second spike - I honestly don't know anymore! I did think we would certainly get one, but it seems that nationwide at least we have got longer than I thought without it (given that I was expecting it to start 7-14 days after the beach madness).

 

[GB]

If they have been taken off the air or streaming services due to political interventions/opinions/pressure then yes they have been banned. The fact you can still obtain them from other sources doesn’t change that.

 

[WelshBluebird]

If they have been taken off the air or streaming services due to political interventions/opinions/pressure then yes they have been banned. The fact you can still obtain them from other sources doesn’t change that.

Banning generally means you cannot get something or it is illegal to do so. That is not the case here. No where near.
You are more than able to pick up a copy of whatever you want out of the few things that have been removed from some streaming platforms.
To claim something being removed from a streaming platform is the same as banning it is a massive fallacy, unless it is something that is only available via that platform and by no other means (which there are a few granted, but none of what we are talking about).

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Starting at the end, don't apologise, that's largely what the forum is for and it has been good to read your point of view! I must say though that I found that what you wrote about having children really made me think. I really do appreciate your feelings about bringing up kids in this day and age, but what you said and what the events of the last couple of weeks have made me realise is that the vast majority of black people will probably have been thinking exactly the same feelings since time immemorial, simply because they are black, and there is the tragedy of racism. That people (white people like me) are starting to wake up and smell the coffee is the silver lining that has come from the murder of George Floyd: I have never thought that I live in a racist country, but having thought about it in a bit more detail, now I'm not so sure.There are all sorts of examples, mostly covert, when you think hard enough. I'm not sure that Brexit wasn't largely a product of xenophobia.

That said I was upset by the complete disrespect of social distancing at some of the rallies at the weekend, particularly in London. The fact that people who were there didn't mind running the risk of spreading the virus which would result in more deaths, inevitably of older people or those with underlying conditions rather then the demonstrators themselves, was appalling.


Do have kids, a lot of things have changed in my lifetime sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse, and that will continue to be the case probably for ever.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I just take people as they come, whatever background.

The only group of people really bother me are the radical left wingers or some others being ordinary people being led & brainwashed by the former.

They behave like totalitarian marxists, they try to change you also forcing their opinions on you if they do not like how you are nor accept your ways. Their followers just can’t think for themselves, going along with what is preached, copying whatever others are doing because it’s trendy on social media etc. Protests & riots are typical bandwagon jumping that end up in destruction & violence. They all would jump off a cliff like the lemmings they are. Gen Z can be the worst for this, hence my fear of having children as they absorb things like sponges therefore easier to manipulate.

I’ve already met some of this sort - very rude, uppity, arrogant & condescending. Their demeanour would change, on realising about my disability, to fawning all over me also being rather patronising because to them I was too dumb & disabled to do anything. They would puff up with self-righteous smugness so they can later boast about helping a disabled person.

If I were to bring kids into this world, I would need to protect them from these dangerous people, who are waiting to brainwash them, so how am I going to do this when I want to give them freedom with their lives and not be a helicopter parent by smothering them? Send them to private school or home school them?

If we are supposed to accept & embrace diversity, but a SJW control freak will flip out if a curious white person dabbles with a different culture, getting upset about “cultural appropriation”? We are taught to be sensitive & mindful of different cultures but I don’t see a problem when non-white tourists holiday in Dorset and have cream teas? I probably shouldn’t mention to a SJW about eating a banana leaf meal on my trip to Malaysia.

 

[Bedpan]

In terms of football - I am not surprised at all.
I don't think fans will necessarily congregate around grounds when games restart, but I do think that something like a promotion celebration was pretty obvious.

A second spike - I honestly don't know anymore! I did think we would certainly get one, but it seems that nationwide at least we have got longer than I thought without it (given that I was expecting it to start 7-14 days after the beach madness).

I think exactly the same. I'm wondering whether before too long we will be able to start to be cautiously optimistic that there might not be a second spike at all, although doubtless the number of infections could have tailed off quicker without some people ignoring the restrictions.