Getting Prosecuted over a mistake

[unfortunateone]

So i was travelling from smethwick galton bridge to birmingham moor street but had accidently bought a ticket from birmingham snow hill to birmingham moor street from thetrainline app and was stopped as i was leaving the station and was reffered to the ticket revenue inspector who refered me to prosecution despite it being my first ever offence.

Transport investigations ltd are the company who will be prosecuting and they are using my previous tickets from my trainline account and they are accusing me of having fare evaded in the past as there were child tickets to london and some tickets had the 16-17 rail card used. i tried to explain to them that I had purchased those tickets on behalf of my friends.

Nonetheless they are still continuing with the prosecution. They had offered me an out of court settlement of £2,500 but i simply couldn't afford it so they are continuing with prosecution. does anyone have any advice or could tell me about their previous experience. I truly believe that they are prosecuting me because i'm black, i was the only person leaving the station who was stopped and was the only black person amongst those.

any advice would be appreciated!!!

 

[Puffing Devil]

There's a whole heap of questions in there, the first of which would be how did they get access to the previously purchased tickets in your Trainline account?

Do they have any evidence that you travelled on any of the other occasions?

At this stage, you may want to consider a free consultation with a solicitor to work out your options. Otherwise, you can wait until the court summons to see the final charges and make a decision on how to proceed. To offer an out of court settlement of £2,500 suggests that TIL believe that they have a decent case.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

So i was travelling from smethwic galton bridge to birmingham moor street but had accidently bought a ticket from birmingham snow hill to birmingham moor street from thetrainline app

How did you "accidentally" come to buy a ticket for a much shorter journey than that which you actually intended to make? Was this journey, perhaps, the last journey you had searched for in the app? And if so, why, unless you had an intention of actually travelling from Snow Hill to Moor Street? Can you see what I'm leading up to?

was stopped as i was leaving the station and was reffered to the ticket revenue inspector who refered me to prosecution despite it being my first ever offence

I'm just wondering why they stopped you if you had a ticket that was valid for travel for at least one station on the train you got off - were they following you from Smethwick Galton Bridge or was there another reason they found out about what you had done?

Selling a ticket or issuing a Penalty Fare is only intended for those who have made a mistake. It doesn't sound like this was the case here, so proceeding straight to the path towards prosecution was entirely correct.

they are accusing me of having fare evaded in the past as there were child tickets to london and some tickets had the 16-17 rail card used. i tried to explain to them that I had purchased those tickets on behalf of my friends.

Would your friends be willing to testify to that? Do they have 16-17 Railcards they are willing to show? Is there an explanation as to why you bought the ticket on behalf of your friends, rather than them buying their own tickets? These are the kinds of questions that may be raised if you are saying you did not travel on those tickets.

Nonetheless they are still continuing with the prosecution.

As they are quite entitled to do.

They had offered me an out of court settlement of £2,500 but i simply couldn't afford it so they are continuing with prosecution.

On the one hand, you have my sympathy - because TIL are notorious for offering unreasonable out of Court settlements to avoid prosecution. On the other hand, there will be a reason why you have come to the TOC's attention. Are you sure this is the first time you have made this kind of "mistake" or is there more to it?

I truly believe that they are prosecuting me because i'm black, i was the only person leaving the station who was stopped and was the only black person amongst those

Even if this is true, which is possible, complaining about it will get you nowhere. Being black does not change the fact that fare evasion is a crime that can and will see you taken to Court. You will need to pursue any complaint about being singled out with the customer services department of the relevant train company.

In this instance I suspect that is likely to have been a pre-planned sting operation to a certain degree, but you may never know.

To offer an out of court settlement of £2,500 suggests that TIL believe that they have a decent case.

Or that TIL are simply being their usual selves... Whilst the evidence against the OP is not good, TIL will need more than just hunches to prove that OP actually made the other journeys bought through their account.

The OP would be well advised, in any case, to seek the advice of a criminal defence solicitor. It is clear that the charges against them are a lot more serious than "merely" one instance of fare evasion or breach of Byelaw 18. Even an initial consultation with a solicitor, which should not cost too much, may give some idea of the best way forward here.

 

[Brissle Girl]

So i was travelling from smethwic galton bridge to birmingham moor street but had accidently bought a ticket from birmingham snow hill to birmingham moor street from thetrainline app and was stopped as i was leaving the station and was reffered to the ticket revenue inspector who refered me to prosecution despite it being my first ever offence.

Short faring is a common way of paying less for your ticket than you should, and revenue inspectors are on the look out for it. They might have found your explanation that you accidentally bought the ticket from Snow Hill implausible - I'm not familiar with the particular app, but given the two stations are not particularly close alphabetically, unless it defaults to a previously used station, it's difficult to see how it could be accidental. And of course, the price being noticeably less would also be another warning sign.

There are ways of identifying short faring which may mean they pick people out who didn't board the train at Snow Hill, but whose ticket was from that station. I won't go into them for obvious reasons. So I wouldn't complain about being the only one picked out - the fact was you were chosen for some reason and didn't have a valid ticket.

As for it being your first offence, I am sure the majority of people stopped for fare irregularities say it is their first offence, whereas I suspect for many of them it is actually the first time they have been caught. I'm not suggesting that is the case here, but they will have heard it so many times not to believe it as mitigation.

 

[furlong]

How many journeys are they talking about? How are they likely to have evidence to prove each one separately beyond reasonable doubt if they were truly for friends? Were those tickets ones that were printed or collected from a machine or electronic ones attached to the phone?
What is the breakdown of the £2500? What part of it is to pay fares they allege you owe them and what part is to pay for the actual costs of their investigation?
If it goes to court might they be asking the court to award them that same amount of money - and you might end up with a fine to pay on top of that?

 

[RJ]

I don't think the OP is seeking further advice.

 

[island]

When you say it was a “mistake” to buy a ticket for one stop instead of three stops and costing 20p less than the ticket you should have bought, can you clarify further? A ”mistake” normally means taking an action you did not intend to take. Presumably you knew where you were getting on the train, yes?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I think that the OP is facing two issues here
1) Prosecution
2) The fear that you have been chosen for prosecution because of your race

To tackle the second point first, it's important to realise that this isn't guaranteed to provide a way to make the prosecution go away. If Transport Investigations Ltd (TIL) are on firm ground with their accusations, then the reasons for them choosing to investigate you rather than anyone else won't affect the outcome of the case. That's not to say that the point should be ignored: if TIL are on weaker ground then suggesting that the prosecution is consequent on your race may pay some benefit in court, and if you really consider that you have faced prejudice it would be appropriate to take the matter further. Since for discussing the prosecution I agree with the suggestions above that you need to talk to a solicitor, I think this is an issue that you should talk to them about.

Moving on to the prosecution, I agree (as I have said) that you need to talk to a solicitor: the fact that TIL suggested £2,500 as a settlement says that this is quite a serious matter. My understanding is that some solicitors will give a free consultation of maybe half an hour or so, so if money is tight see if you can find someone who will do that. You may also have sources of free legal support that you haven't thought about: if you are a student then your students union may be able to help; if you are a member of a trade union there may be legal advice through that; if you have household insurance, it might include this in legal cover (although not all household insurance includes legal cover, and I am by no means sure if this is the sort of legal matter that would be included anyway). If you are a member of a church or some sort of community group, they may be able to help find someone who can give you free or reduced rate support.

What I think would be worth doing while you try to sort out a solicitor is looking at what TIL have sent you, and checking whether they have got their facts right, and whether their assumptions follow. By 'facts' I mean things like the railway tickets that you have bought (you've mentioned that your Trainline record shows you as having bought child and 16-17 tickets: I infer that you are over 18 so not entitled to use these tickets): by 'assumptions' I mean things like assuming that you used the child / 16-17 tickets. While at court it's up to TIL to prove their point, you can help yourself by producing evidence that they are wrong. So (for example) try to find the people you bought the tickets for, and ask them if they would be prepared to come to court or write a letter to the court confirming that you bought the ticket for them. If the tickets were for a time when you know you were doing something else, make a note of what the 'something else' was, so that you can tell the court that you couldn't have been going to London that day because you have debit card receipts showing you were in Wolverhampton (or whatever). If you can show that there is an innocent explanation for the actions that TIL find so suspicious, then you will be a long way to winning in court.

As I say, the suggested settlement of £2,500 says that TIL think that this is a serious matter. So you do need to take it seriously. And that means getting help. Somehow or another, talk to a solicitor.

 

[WesternLancer]

So i was travelling from smethwick galton bridge to birmingham moor street but had accidently bought a ticket from birmingham snow hill to birmingham moor street from thetrainline app and was stopped as i was leaving the station and was reffered to the ticket revenue inspector who refered me to prosecution despite it being my first ever offence.

Transport investigations ltd are the company who will be prosecuting and they are using my previous tickets from my trainline account and they are accusing me of having fare evaded in the past as there were child tickets to london and some tickets had the 16-17 rail card used. i tried to explain to them that I had purchased those tickets on behalf of my friends.

Nonetheless they are still continuing with the prosecution. They had offered me an out of court settlement of £2,500 but i simply couldn't afford it so they are continuing with prosecution. does anyone have any advice or could tell me about their previous experience. I truly believe that they are prosecuting me because i'm black, i was the only person leaving the station who was stopped and was the only black person amongst those.

any advice would be appreciated!!!

My advice is as follows really.

Cutting to the chase you are guilty, it would seem, of not having the correct ticket from Smethwick - as I understand it that is a 'slam dunk' offence - no mitigating circs. Has no bearing on it whether you did that by mistake or not. If they prosecute they will probably win (eg maybe CCTV evidence of you at Smethwick GB station, or you may have admitted you go on there), and then you will get a record, and have to pay some money - maybe less than £2.5k however. This is not good. The record will serve to 'cost' you more eg due to wider consequences.

But they want a lot of money to settle and make this 'go away'.

You need some help and advice quickly. Either go to CAB / Solicitor offering free initial advice / if you are a student your Uni or college Students Union. But you probably need the solicitor option.

I suspect the best chance is to try to negotiate down the sum they are asking for in settlement, and that is what you need the help in doing.

I assume the previous ticket purchases on your Trainline account are not being used to prosecute you ref all of them (they would need proof that you did use those tickets) - but I suspect they are using them to create a body of supporting evidence that suggests (to magistrates) even though you only dodged a small fare on this occasion, the court can infer that you are not averse to travelling on tickets with discounts to which you are not entitled to and thus imply you are guilty of this too. If you can not robustly prove otherwise to dispute that (as others have suggested how to above) - they will I expect continue to press that line of thinking on the court.

Have they targeted you because of your ethnicity - I hope not but it's possible. My hunch is more likely they target young people, whatever their ethnicity perhaps. Not all fare dodgers are young people, but I would say young people are perhaps more prone to take a risk to try and save a small amount of money (maybe).

I suspect that they will target anyone who they find with a ticket from Snow Hill to Moor Street, because it is such an obvious way to dodge a fare, and apart from a few cases (eg someone with mobility problems, or someone in need of a short add on ticket why would most people actually take a train for such a journey - surely many would just walk it?)

In fact if you look through these threads it's not uncommon for people to ask for help who have been caught at Snow Hill or Moor Street in the same scenario as you - so it must be common and must be seen as an issue by the train companies.

Good luck - hope you can get some help to negotiate down the fine.

I suppose only other option is for you to be honest about how many times you have done this in the past, calculate what they have lost - and offer to pay a reasonable sum to compensate them for their costs and including a profuse apology and a commitment not to do such a thing ever again. IE make an alternative offer and see if they accept it - they will set this against the fact that if they take you to court it will cost them something in admin and fees, but they know they will almost certainly 'win' - so it's a trade off.

Others on here may be able to advise on what sort of sum you should offer that they might consider accepting.

**EDIT - looks like I posted this at the same time as post #8 from Fawkes Cat - the content of which I much agree with

 

[30907]

Just one other point:
you may be able to point to all the other transactions on your trainline account which demonstrate your honesty - tickets for your own travel, for journeys from your home station, at adult fare since your 16th birthday, etc. They would add plausibility to your claim that you sometimes bought tickets for other people.

 

[mmh]

Was this journey, perhaps, the last journey you had searched for in the app?

They might have found your explanation that you accidentally bought the ticket from Snow Hill implausible - I'm not familiar with the particular app, but given the two stations are not particularly close alphabetically, unless it defaults to a previously used station, it's difficult to see how it could be accidental.

How did you "accidentally" come to buy a ticket for a much shorter journey than that which you actually intended to make?

The Trainline app does default to your last search.

And of course, the price being noticeably less would also be another warning sign.

The price is not much less. A single is 20p cheaper in the day at £2.50. In the evening the single fare from both stations is £2.50.

Cutting to the chase you are guilty, it would seem, of not having the correct ticket from Smethwick - as I understand it that is a 'slam dunk' offence - no mitigating circs.

If it were me I would definitely be using the fare being the same price at times as a mitigating circumstance, but I would be very surprised a zero or 20p underpayment would be resulting in threatened prosecution with a £2500 settlement offer for travel between two stations in a penalty fare zone.

 

[Haywain]

I think @RJ nailed this thread in post #6.

 

[WesternLancer]

I think @RJ nailed this thread in post #6.

exactly.
And the OP probably showed them the Trainline purchasing on his phone (intentionally or unintentionally) so I doubt any GDPR breach has taken place.
Not much point in further posts on the thread really.
OP may have been back to look, but if so not been bothered about responding to any of the posts made / advice given.

 

[RJ]

The OP changed their post to "never mind" on seeing the first few replies which is why I posted that

Someone has since reinstated their original post, the last edited marker has even disappeared. I don't think the OP will be back!

 

[WesternLancer]

The OP changed their post to "never mind" on seeing the first few replies which is why I posted that

Someone has since reinstated their original post, the last edited marker has even disappeared. I don't think the OP will be back!

Shame they have not come back as I thought there is some very useful info in the post by Fawkes Cat above about making a case that £2,500 request to settle is disproportionate to a 20p fare evaded - and a good angle to take if you want to try to negotiate a more affordable settlement with the TOC/TIL !

 

[Haywain]

Shame they have not come back as I thought there is some very useful info in the post by Fawkes Cat above about making a case that £2,500 request to settle is disproportionate to a 20p fare evaded - and a good angle to take if you want to try to negotiate a more affordable settlement with the TOC/TIL !

It might be if you seriously believe that anyone would be asking for a settlement of that magnitude for a 20p fare evasion. Personally, I take the view that the original post was seriously lacking in some essential detail - namely, truth.

 

[WesternLancer]

It might be if you seriously believe that anyone would be asking for a settlement of that magnitude for a 20p fare evasion. Personally, I take the view that the original post was seriously lacking in some essential detail - namely, truth.

I could not possibly comment....

Tho it might not shock me if TIL tried to get sums out of you even when they railway owed you money!

 

[Haywain]

Tho it might not shock me if TIL tried to get sums out of you even when they railway owed you money!

We have plenty of evidence on this forum of the sort of amounts that TIL ask for or accept in settlement and such an amount has never been mentioned. Chancers they may be, but not to that extent.

 

[mmh]

It might be if you seriously believe that anyone would be asking for a settlement of that magnitude for a 20p fare evasion. Personally, I take the view that the original post was seriously lacking in some essential detail - namely, truth.

A conspiracist might note the wording of the original post. It's strangely precise and detailed in some of the terminology used, e.g. "ticket revenue inspector," "referred to prosecution," "the company dealing with it is." This is language an enthusiast knows, but experience shows us is rarely presented in an initial post on this sub forum. The mention of race discrimination as if a throwaway afterthought is notable too.

 

[ainsworth74]

It seems unlikely that the OP is going to return, for whatever reason, so this thread is locked. Various members were involved in a very interesting discussion around the usage of data obtained from third party apps and whether or not that constituted a GDPR breach or not. I would encourage you to continue that discussion. It was fascinating! As such those posts can now be found in a dedicated thread here.

(@island and @Puffing Devil you may want to use the new thread in particular )