Getting Started

[Skittle]

Hello - I have literally just joined and hope I'm posting in the right place.

I feel silly asking but was hoping someone might be able to help me with some ideas for getting started on finding more out about trains. Hold with me on it:

I am not necessarily looking for myself it's I have a son who has just turned 3. This kid has me watching trains on youtube (welcome break from kids tv tbh!), been reciting the Fife Circle route and announcements for over a year, my hobby is gaming so I have played no small amount of Train Sim 2020 at his request etc - he really loves them and I don't want to just see it as "oh well he'll stop so leave it" I want to try and engage him a little more so he isn't looping like he currently is and to try to support what could be a lifetime hobby.

I thought maybe just learning a little of what type of trains we are looking at and (for me) how to identify them so I can slowly build some additional informaion. But really, I feel a bit overwhelmed on how to start or what information could be deemed interesting but digestible or can be made digestible for a curious little brain.

So yes, sorry it's a ramble and so vague but I had a look on the forum and all the sub forums seem a little daunting, not sure where to start.

Thank you in advance and hope to be active in future

Nic

 

[StephenHunter]

Identifying the class of trains in this country is pretty simple; you just look at the number on the front or the side. The first two or three digits are the class number. Here's a guide to the current (and historical) numbering systems:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briti...ssification_alterations_and_extensions_-_TOPS

Here's some information about your local line.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fife_Circle_Line

Here's a good site that might be helpful:

https://spotlog.org/locolist/set/UK

There are various books available on Amazon and other shops that are quite helpful too; although they're more oriented to a grown-up audience.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Just take him on a few short train trips
If you can use a train where one may sit behind the driver and see the line ahead, he should be hooked

 

[Huntergreed]

Hi there - welcome to the forum

I think it’s fantastic that you’re actively pursuing this interest for your child - my parents were not happy when I said I was interested in railways (to the point where I pretend I’m not to them!), so it’s fantastic to see someone being so supportive towards their child’s interest!

If you’re wanting to identify a train type in the UK, it’s actually quite simple. All UK trains are given a TOPS (Total Operations Processing System) number, of either 5 or 6 digits.

The number of digits will depend on the type of train, there are two main types of train in the UK, locomotive hauled (where a locomotive (ie engine car) runs by itself, or where it hauls either passenger coaches or freight wagons), and multiple units (these are passenger trains where the engines/powering unit are built into the coaches, and the coaches are permanently attached (whereas with loco-hauled stock they can be coupled and uncoupled freely).

A locomotive will have a 5 digit TOPS number, and the first 2 numbers will tell you the class of locomotive (in the UK, different train types are referred to as different classes). For instance, this is a class 66, the most common freight locomotive in the UK, hauling some freight wagons:


If you look at the front of the locomotive, you can see the number “66077”, the first two numbers tell you the class of locomotive (66) and the last three numbers are unique to each locomotive (think of it as the locomotive number plate), what some people like to do (trainspotters) is go out and try to see every single train in the country, and they’ll tick off the number of the locomotive once they’ve seen it.

The other type of train in the UK is multiple units. These are what most passengers services are run by, and they work in a similar way to locomotives, except their class number is 3 digits long and the full train number is 6 digits long rather than 5. The main differences between a multiple unit and locomotive are (in simple terms) that a locomotive essentially pulls the train by itself, and consists of a cab and engine, whereas with a multiple unit, the engines can be found in each (or some) carriages and the cabs are built into the main passenger coaches.

For example, if you live on the Fife Circle Route, I’m sure you will be familiar with these trains:
This is a multiple unit. As you can see, it is a 3 coach train, with the cabs built at the end of the two end passenger coaches. There is an engine in each coach, so the whole train powers itself (rather than the coaches being pulled by a locomotive). As I said before, a multiple unit is numbered with 6 digits, with the first 3 digits being the class number. In this instance, this means that the above train is a class 170, run by Scotrail on many of their routes out of Edinburgh, and the train number (unique to that particular train) is 170401.

The railway is a fantastic hobby in my opinion and it’s certainly one that can be more complex than people first realise, but if you have any questions at all please feel free to post them on here and we’ll do our best to provide you with a good and accurate answer. I hope this helps (if you need clarification, please do let me know!) and I hope your son enjoys learning more about the railways

 

[Brissle Girl]

I'm not sure that the Prime Minister agrees.

Just take him on a few short train trips
If you can use a train where one may sit behind the driver and see the line ahead, he should be hooked

Don’t think there are many services on the national rail network where is possible unfortunately. But yes, take him to Edinburgh for a couple of hours, maybe find a busy level crossing near you, (kids are fascinated by the barriers and lights), and of course you have a half decent rail bridge near you that he might enjoy viewing from different angles.

 

[Skittle]

This is great, thank you for the ideas!

I have had a quick skim over the link, thank you and I didn't realise it was that easy to identify (really feel bit red in the face for asking, oh well...if you don't know you don't know I guess).

Just take him on a few short train trips
If you can use a train where one may sit behind the driver and see the line ahead, he should be hooked

Absolutely, I don't drive so we are always on some mode of public transport, usually the train I'm sure it's how it's all begun but I will keep an eye out for the seating. He loved when he had to get a train from Winchester to York, York to Edinburgh when Flybe went bust the night before we were due to fly home .I was thinking of a trip back to York so he would have the train trip and able to actually go into the museum, one is Bo'Ness I think as well....may have made that up.

Also thank you Huntergreed lot of useful information to getting a foundation on what I'm looking at, it's just that I hope to be able to learn that sort of thing so instead of it necessarily being "red train/blue train" or "big train" etc then I can start to add that sort of thing in - locomotives etc just to let him be introduced and let him learn and take it from there. He does seem interested in things like wind turbines, cars, taking things apart etc (just not to the same degree as seeing a train) so I just feel he might find the more technical sort of thing interesting as it develops.

I do know what you mean though my parents struggled with me liking games and warhammer I think. I wasn't put on this Earth to shape his interests though so what he likes, he likes. It's bad to say but I'd rather sit in the rain helping him video a train go past than sit in the rain watching a ball go psat and hiim chasing wildly after it anyway.



This is great, thank you for the ideas!

I have had a quick skim over the link, thank you and I didn't realise it was that easy to identify (really feel bit red in the face for asking, oh well...if you don't know you don't know I guess).

Just take him on a few short train trips
If you can use a train where one may sit behind the driver and see the line ahead, he should be hooked

Absolutely, I don't drive so we are always on some mode of public transport, usually the train I'm sure it's how it's all begun but I will keep an eye out for the seating. He loved when he had to get a train from Winchester to York, York to Edinburgh when Flybe went bust the night before we were due to fly home .I was thinking of a trip back to York so he would have the train trip and able to actually go into the museum, one is Bo'Ness I think as well....may have made that up.

Also thank you Huntergreed lot of useful information to getting a foundation on what I'm looking at, it's just that I hope to be able to learn that sort of thing so instead of it necessarily being "red train/blue train" or "big train" etc then I can start to add that sort of thing in - locomotives etc just to let him be introduced and let him learn and take it from there. He does seem interested in things like wind turbines, cars, taking things apart etc (just not to the same degree as seeing a train) so I just feel he might find the more technical sort of thing interesting as it develops.

I do know what you mean though my parents struggled with me liking games and warhammer I think. I wasn't put on this Earth to shape his interests though so what he likes, he likes. It's bad to say but I'd rather sit in the rain helping him video a train go past than sit in the rain watching a ball go psat and hiim chasing wildly after it anyway.

Don’t think there are many services on the national rail network where is possible unfortunately. But yes, take him to Edinburgh for a couple of hours, maybe find a busy level crossing near you, (kids are fascinated by the barriers and lights), and of course you have a half decent rail bridge near you that he might enjoy viewing from different angles.

Oh my days, we love traffic lights. I should look for a level crossing around about. The only one I can think of isn't ideal to see without being in a car but there's bound to be loads I've just not really registered it, so I'll definitely have a look

 

[30907]

I believe the Bo'ness line is out of action ATM because of a landslide

You can ride "up front" on the Docklands system in London and IIRC the Tyne & Wear Metro (which is a lot nearer) - otherwise it's find a preserved line that is running a heritage diesel unit - many do, but not always that regularly.

 

[Skittle]

I believe the Bo'ness line is out of action ATM because of a landslide

You can ride "up front" on the Docklands system in London and IIRC the Tyne & Wear Metro (which is a lot nearer) - otherwise it's find a preserved line that is running a heritage diesel unit - many do, but not always that regularly.

Ahh nuts. I knew there was a landslide somewhere but just couldn't really place where (my sense of direction is so bad it's almost impressive). I think I'll loook into Metro as well as being closer, London as a place intimidates me - I'm a wee country bumpkin and barely cope with how busy Edinburgh gets lol freaks me out thought of not getting permanently lost or trampled - hopefully brave it one day though

 

[30907]

Just seen on another forum pictures of the Keith and Dufftown who appear to have a suitable DMU.

 

[Skittle]

That's great.

I did a little test drive, so as I was getting on the trains today (going to collect so no shorty) looking for the numbers and googling the class. So far I've discovered the trains which I'm convinced are held together with staples and gorilla glue are the 158s doing the circle. But I've found it really handy, with practice and a few googles, I'm sure the info will stick in and I can start to talk to him about it. He loves numbers so I can maybe see if I can get him to help me identify the numbers and see how many different units of a specific class we get on in the week (always needing to travel through the week).

I'm not too sure how much travelling we will do outside of that, I'm half expecting a new wave of restrictions over Winter but I think I will try to plan some bigger adventures using the information you've all given but it's been a massive help already - thank you again

 

[Huntergreed]

That's great.

I did a little test drive, so as I was getting on the trains today (going to collect so no shorty) looking for the numbers and googling the class. So far I've discovered the trains which I'm convinced are held together with staples and gorilla glue are the 158s doing the circle.

That might just be one of the best descriptions of a 158 I've heard

To actually agree with your point, I was on a Northern 158 on Saturday when the roof actually made way and collapsed in, so you might not be far wrong there!

But I've found it really handy, with practice and a few googles, I'm sure the info will stick in and I can start to talk to him about it. He loves numbers so I can maybe see if I can get him to help me identify the numbers and see how many different units of a specific class we get on in the week (always needing to travel through the week).

I'm not too sure how much travelling we will do outside of that, I'm half expecting a new wave of restrictions over Winter but I think I will try to plan some bigger adventures using the information you've all given but it's been a massive help already - thank you again

Glad you're finding the info on here helpful. Do keep us updated with your travels and if you have any questions at all please just ask away

 

[Peter C]

But I've found it really handy, with practice and a few googles, I'm sure the info will stick in and I can start to talk to him about it.

I've been reading thorough this thread and it sounds really nice that you're having a proper go at all of this
I've found that stuff tends to make its way into my memory seemingly through osmosis - reading enough things and seeing enough trains will lead to you building up a good knowledge of what runs around near you and what doesn't.
If you want the ability to tick off numbers, there are a couple of good sites run by @The_Train ( https://www.ukraillog.co.uk/) and @BenW390Fan (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...hsczbrZ0fCz0iGkUMooZCgLf8AwvGDb2cLrkA/pubhtml) which have plenty of information on them which can help. They can probably explain it better than I can in terms of what their sites can offer!

Hope this helps,

-Peter

 

[BenW390Fan]

I've been reading thorough this thread and it sounds really nice that you're having a proper go at all of this
I've found that stuff tends to make its way into my memory seemingly through osmosis - reading enough things and seeing enough trains will lead to you building up a good knowledge of what runs around near you and what doesn't.
If you want the ability to tick off numbers, there are a couple of good sites run by @The_Train ( https://www.ukraillog.co.uk/) and @BenW390Fan (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...hsczbrZ0fCz0iGkUMooZCgLf8AwvGDb2cLrkA/pubhtml) which have plenty of information on them which can help. They can probably explain it better than I can in terms of what their sites can offer!

Hope this helps,

-Peter

Indeed we do! Thanks for giving us a recommendation, me, @Joel_F and @The_Train work hard on our sites to provide the very best we can give for the community

 

[Peter C]

Indeed we do! Thanks for giving us a recommendation, me, @Joel_F and @The_Train work hard on our sites to provide the very best we can give for the community

You're very welcome - you've all been very useful in providing the information you do. I can see how it would be extremely useful to someone just starting out, especially with the pictures designed by @Joel_F, which can aid identification of classes.

-Peter

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Hello @Skittle and welcome to the forum

 

[Skittle]

To actually agree with your point, I was on a Northern 158 on Saturday when the roof actually made way and collapsed in, so you might not be far wrong there!

yikes! I'm so convinced it was 158 I was on last year where I was knackered was dead of Winter, just wanted home from work. I got to my stop so went to the door I came in from and realised after hitting "open" a few times nothing was happening, the panel wasn't sitting properly flush so I am guessing that it wasn't connecting properly to actually open the door. I have never ran, flailed and missed a stop in such a dumb way before in my life. It was one of the rare times the train does terminate at Glenrothes though so no good way to get home, would have been a cake walk if it went to Kirkcaldy but really, Thornton itself has zilch in it.

I've been reading thorough this thread and it sounds really nice that you're having a proper go at all of this
I've found that stuff tends to make its way into my memory seemingly through osmosis - reading enough things and seeing enough trains will lead to you building up a good knowledge of what runs around near you and what doesn't.
If you want the ability to tick off numbers, there are a couple of good sites run by @The_Train ( https://www.ukraillog.co.uk/) and @BenW390Fan (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...hsczbrZ0fCz0iGkUMooZCgLf8AwvGDb2cLrkA/pubhtml) which have plenty of information on them which can help. They can probably explain it better than I can in terms of what their sites can offer!

Hope this helps,

-Peter

Thank you - having a little nose at them now, think they will definitely come in handy, wait until I have some coffee and quiet and have a proper look.

Hello @Skittle and welcome to the forum

Thank you

 

[Peter C]

Thank you - having a little nose at them now, think they will definitely come in handy, wait until I have some coffee and quiet and have a proper look.

There are loads of resources to help identification of certain engines and units - I think Ian Allen (or similar) made/make a book called "Traction Recognition" - although how good it is, I don't know! The ABC Rail Guides are also really good, but don't pay the £20 and up they want for them from the Ian Allen/Crecy website; try and find maybe even last year's edition for cheap somewhere (preferably new, used ones may have had underlinings made to show trains the owner has seen and that could be confusing).

-Peter