Girl thrown off bus for the sake of 30p (possibly)

Status
Not open for further replies.

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
11,319
Location
0036
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...bus-in-tears-for-the-sake-of-30p-7905889.html


Maxine Frith in the London Evening Standard said:
‘Bullyboy’ inspectors throw girl, 14, off bus in tears… for the sake of 30p

A girl aged 14 was marched off a bus and left crying at the side of the road by ticket inspectors following a mix-up with her Oyster card that left her 30p short.

Beth Cole says she was made to feel like a criminal, and her parents have complained to Boris Johnson, claiming the inspectors’ “bullyboy” tactics are putting vulnerable girls at risk.

The teenager, from Brockley, had lost her Zip Oyster photocard, which entitles children to free bus travel. She reported the loss to Transport for London, and was told a replacement could take up to 10 days, so in the meantime she should use one of her parents’ Oyster cards.

But she had not topped the card up with enough money to cover the £2.30 cost of her journey on the 466 bus from Coloma Convent Girls’ School in Croydon to East Croydon station.

When a team of TfL inspectors arrived to check tickets, she was forced off the bus, issued with a £80 penalty fare notice and had the Oyster card confiscated....(more)


Spot the inconsistencies?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Schnellzug

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2011
Messages
2,926
Location
Evercreech Junction
"They gave me a permit so I could get on the next bus and get home"
That makes no sense at all. Act all Geheime Staatspolizei and order someone off the bus, and give them a permit to get the next one?

* But the quote of the week must be "Inspectors are completely professional and polite at all times.”

:p
 

MCR247

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2008
Messages
9,086
"They gave me a permit so I could get on the next bus and get home"
That makes no sense at all. Act all Geheime Staatspolizei and order someone off the bus, and give them a permit to get the next one?

From what I can see, to prevent the bus the 'offender' is on from having to stop and be delayed, they will remove the person from the bus, allow that bus to go, deal with that person (which will take x minutes) and allow them to get the next bus so they can get home?
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
16,226
Location
Yorkshire, Yorkshire, Yorkshire
Beth Cole says she was made to feel like a criminal

The teenager, from Brockley, had lost her Zip Oyster photocard, which entitles children to free bus travel

was told a replacement could take up to 10 days, so in the meantime she should use one of her parents’ Oyster cards.

But she had not topped the card up with enough money to cover the £2.30 cost of her journey

Her father Robert, a journalist, said: “When Beth phoned she was so upset she could barely speak. I thought she’d been mugged or attacked. She’s a very level-headed girl who looks her age and is entitled to free travel. If this was her 50th ticket offence I might understand it, but she hadn’t done anything wrong.

Beth boarded the bus at about 4.45pm and had only gone a few stops when the inspectors got on. There was £2 on the card but the fare was £2.30

So, in essence - she lost her own card, she travelled with another card that didn't have enough money on it...

...her journalist dad says that she hasn't done anything wrong though.

Funny that a newspaper is so keen to publish a story regarding the family of a journalist isn't it?

And funny that although she was clearly travelling without sufficient funds for her journey she's unhappy at being made to feel like she's done something wrong!

I could understand the hysteria if this was the last bus of the evening or something, but... really? I'm frustrated at how public transport employees are always the bad guys - even when someone is clearly travelling without enough money.

Gah!
 

SS4

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2011
Messages
8,485
Location
Birmingham
So, in essence - she lost her own card, she travelled with another card that didn't have enough money on it...

...her journalist dad says that she hasn't done anything wrong though.

Funny that a newspaper is so keen to publish a story regarding the family of a journalist isn't it?

And funny that although she was clearly travelling without sufficient funds for her journey she's unhappy at being made to feel like she's done something wrong!

I could understand the hysteria if this was the last bus of the evening or something, but... really? I'm frustrated at how public transport employees are always the bad guys - even when someone is clearly travelling without enough money.

Gah!

I concur.

I'd be inclined to say that if this young person had an XY chromosome it would not be newsworthy, indeed blame would be correctly levied on him.
 
Joined
21 Oct 2010
Messages
1,040
The Evening Standard usual bu#l sh#t, if she hadnt scanned the oyster then they had to do their job, there is nothing to suggest the inspectors didnt wait with her at the stop until the next bus came. No wonder they had to give this piece of sh#t paper away to get people to read it.
 

bb21

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
23,864
So she did not validate her adult-rate Oyster card when boarding the bus? If there were no RPIs, would she have got away with not paying despite not being eligible (ie. not having her Zip card)?

Why is the fare quoted as £2.30 anyway? That is the cash fare. Adult Oyster fare costs £1.35.

The more I look at it, the less sympathy I feel. Sorry but it's her own fault.
 

BestWestern

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2011
Messages
6,736
Does anybody who pays London taxes actually agree with teenies getting free rides when in any other town they pay their way? I do not live in London myself, I'm just curious.
 

bb21

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
23,864
Does anybody who pays London taxes actually agree with teenies getting free rides when in any other town they pay their way? I do not live in London myself, I'm just curious.

It's not as if the general public have a say in these matters.

In many provincial areas, the discount has been cut from half to 1/3 in many cases, even less in certain areas. For example, the discount is 30% here in Leicester with Arriva.

Many of them don't offer child version of the day riders either.
 

BestWestern

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2011
Messages
6,736
I'm not in favour of free travel in general, at the very most it should be means tested for OAP's. Freebies for kids is just plain bonkers IMHO.
 

Clip

On Moderation
Joined
28 Jun 2010
Messages
10,616
Does anybody who pays London taxes actually agree with teenies getting free rides when in any other town they pay their way? I do not live in London myself, I'm just curious.

Actually in some ways I dont really mind some kids getting free travel. But as you said in your other post it should be means tested. There are an awful lot of kids out there whose parents just wouldnt be able to afford the bus fares to school every day and some of their kids go to school a long way from home so you cant have them walking the streets - especially in winter when they would be vulnerable.

Its rough in London as it is without more 'postcode' violence.
 

Ferret

Established Member
Joined
22 Jan 2009
Messages
4,105
The problem with means testing is that it costs a lot of money to administer!

As for the story, it's so full of inconsistent wibble as to be a complete nonsense. Why is it that a swathe of journalists and dare I say it, maybe even a majority are so lazy and incompetent? If I produced work of that substandard nature, I'd be heading out of the door pronto.
 

BestWestern

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2011
Messages
6,736
Actually in some ways I dont really mind some kids getting free travel. But as you said in your other post it should be means tested. There are an awful lot of kids out there whose parents just wouldnt be able to afford the bus fares to school every day and some of their kids go to school a long way from home so you cant have them walking the streets - especially in winter when they would be vulnerable.

Its rough in London as it is without more 'postcode' violence.

That's a fair point. I have no gripe with kids being issued free school travel passes, but I do think it's hard to justify wholesale bus travel for nothing. Whilst it will doubtless benefit some, there must be quite a number who use it when they don't really need to or who are riding round on buses causing grief. As you say, it's rough up London way!
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
11,319
Location
0036
So she did not validate her adult-rate Oyster card when boarding the bus? If there were no RPIs, would she have got away with not paying despite not being eligible (ie. not having her Zip card)?

Why is the fare quoted as £2.30 anyway? That is the cash fare. Adult Oyster fare costs £1.35.

The more I look at it, the less sympathy I feel. Sorry but it's her own fault.

This. If she genuinely had £2 on the Oyster card it would have validated perfectly well for the £1.35 fare.

My guess on what happened is that either there was insufficient credit on the card and it got rejected, but she just carried on regardless (with or without the driver's consent), or that she sneaked on through the exit door.

She's been caught bang to rights and the story has more holes in it than Swiss cheese.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
24,507
Location
UK
I'd go with free travel for school kids, during term time and at school hours.

I'd also say that if you were older and still had a car, chances are you'd still have to pay for insurance, petrol etc - and you'd expect that to be the case. So why does bus travel automatically have to be free? Why not heavily discounted - with less of a discount during the peak times when OAPs can fill up buses and keep off commuters who want to pay but can't fit on the bus (as has happened many times in London when I used to try the bus over the tube to save a few quid).

With smart ticketing, you could have cheaper travel for OAPs but for trips to the chemist, doctor, a hospital check up etc - you could have it so that the card is swiped to credit/refund the travel for that day. It would be incredibly easy to do, and if it was a PAYG system then it would also be possible to have credits added in advance.

That would do away with the need for means testing.
 

edinight

Member
Joined
18 May 2011
Messages
15
Is there an ideological reason behind the opposition to free public transport? As a country, we're pumping out tons of carbon into the atmosphere and the effects are taking their toll.

Surely, on a forum like this, a policy of free public transport (with increased taxation to match) would be a vote-winner?
 

Clip

On Moderation
Joined
28 Jun 2010
Messages
10,616
I'd go with free travel for school kids, during term time and at school hours.

I'd also say that if you were older and still had a car, chances are you'd still have to pay for insurance, petrol etc - and you'd expect that to be the case. So why does bus travel automatically have to be free? Why not heavily discounted - with less of a discount during the peak times when OAPs can fill up buses and keep off commuters who want to pay but can't fit on the bus (as has happened many times in London when I used to try the bus over the tube to save a few quid).

With smart ticketing, you could have cheaper travel for OAPs but for trips to the chemist, doctor, a hospital check up etc - you could have it so that the card is swiped to credit/refund the travel for that day. It would be incredibly easy to do, and if it was a PAYG system then it would also be possible to have credits added in advance.

That would do away with the need for means testing.

But surely this would cost more to administer then just giving them free travel or even means testing it. At least with means testing it its already on people declarations through their tax and credits system is it not?

Although you and Best Western do make a good point about it being for term time only - though again should we restrict those from poorer households the abilty to go out with their kids during the holidays to various parts of london in place of holidays which they may not be able to afford and thus cant afford the money for long trips around the city due to paying child fares too?

I think genuinly that Londons transport system can afford it and it shouldnt be frowned upon. I really do think it is giving something back along with the freedom pass.
 

district

Member
Joined
4 Aug 2011
Messages
1,074
Location
SE16
Oh no! Tfl revenue inspector does job correctly! Stop the presses!

What a non-story. It was clearly her fault, inspector did his job correctly.
 

Deerfold

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2009
Messages
10,571
Location
Yorkshire
Oh no! Tfl revenue inspector does job correctly! Stop the presses!

What a non-story. It was clearly her fault, inspector did his job correctly.

Indeed - though the comments are full of people talking about her being abandoned - despite being given a pass to allow her to travel.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
she had been

Really?

She's not touched in with her pass (whether deliberate or accidental), so in common with all the other people this applies to she's asked to leave the bus whilst they sort it out and then given a pass to allow her to travel on the next bus?

That's being attacked or mugged?
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
24,507
Location
UK
But surely this would cost more to administer then just giving them free travel or even means testing it. At least with means testing it its already on people declarations through their tax and credits system is it not?

Although you and Best Western do make a good point about it being for term time only - though again should we restrict those from poorer households the abilty to go out with their kids during the holidays to various parts of london in place of holidays which they may not be able to afford and thus cant afford the money for long trips around the city due to paying child fares too?

I think genuinly that Londons transport system can afford it and it shouldnt be frowned upon. I really do think it is giving something back along with the freedom pass.

Ironically, travel in London is far cheaper than anywhere else.. but I don't see a problem in offering substantial discounts, rather than totally free travel. If it's 50% or 75% it will still make a difference, and it's not as if a family on low income gets much else for free. Do they get cheaper food and drink? Do they get cheaper entrance into attractions over others? And why give free travel at peak times?

Smartcard passes can be a bit more clever than just offering unlimited free travel. They could have a PAYG credit, with certain people (registered disabled, carers etc) given a certain allowance OR perhaps free travel in certain circumstances. If you visit the doctor, there's a reader there to credit you for the travel. Ditto when you go to get your prescription, and no doubt other places that are considered essential, as against purely leisure.

Giving free travel is nice, until it means buses are so full that other people who pay stop travelling and you're now running services at a huge cost to the tax payer.
 

ntg

Member
Joined
27 Sep 2010
Messages
123
Location
Potters Bar, Herts
Wow, it always amazes me how callous some people on this board are. A child who is entitled to free travel gets issued with a fine of 266% of the amount she was short by and people fail to see how this isn't just?

Sometimes rules are enforced with zero regard to their intent.
 

bb21

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
23,864
Wow, it always amazes me how callous some people on this board are. A child who is entitled to free travel gets issued with a fine of 266% of the amount she was short by and people fail to see how this isn't just?

Sometimes rules are enforced with zero regard to their intent.

Did you read the story at all?

She was not short of any money. She had enough on her Oyster if part of the story is to be believed. So many holes in that story I don't even know where to start. Why did she not touch in?

In addition she was not stranded. She was allowed onward travel.
 

SS4

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2011
Messages
8,485
Location
Birmingham
Wow, it always amazes me how callous some people on this board are. A child who is entitled to free travel gets issued with a fine of 266% of the amount she was short by and people fail to see how this isn't just?

Sometimes rules are enforced with zero regard to their intent.

I bet you're one of those people who think holding a railcard when travelling on a discounted ticket is optional since it's the same principle.

Some inconsistencies:
  • She didn't have a zip card so she was not eligible for free fares.
  • She supposedly had £2 on an adult oyster
  • The Oyster fare is £1.35 which is less than £2
  • £2.30 is the cash fare
  • She was allowed onward travel afterward

We're "callous" because the "facts" as stated in the article do not add up.
 
Last edited:

bb21

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
23,864
We're callous because the "facts" as stated in the article do not add up.

I read that word as to mean "standing on neutral ground". Words like this only get used when people don't like what they hear.
 

SS4

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2011
Messages
8,485
Location
Birmingham
I read that word as to mean "standing on neutral ground". Words like this only get used when people don't like what they hear.

Pretty much although it would probably pass for callous in their opinion because it doesn't agree with the MORAL OUTRAGE the paper successfully fostered
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top