Glasgow - Fort William - Mallaig service

[pt_mad]

Had a return ride on the Glasgow Queens Street to Mallaig service last week and was totally surprised how busy it was between Fort William and Mallaig.

All seats appeared to be full from Fort William and the weather was sunny.

The unit was a 4 car sprinter.

Does this always run as a 4 car sprinter? Or do some of the diagrams run with less? I believe there's around 3 return trips a day ish.
Do they use a 2 car unit during winter?

Must admit it became a bit of a scrum at Fort William. The train reverses and there were quite a few people on my coach complaining that they booked a forward facing seat and upon boarding it's actually backwards. Probably due to the reversal at Fort William? 4 people near me on opposite tables refused to sit backwards in their reserved seats and two others wouldn't move from someone else's booked seat. They were in the correct seat number but wrong coach and wouldn't move. We sat comfortably in the unreserved watching with interest.

Strangely on the return trip the train was only about a third full. Makes me wonder whether some of them may have returned on the afternoon steam. Or perhaps were going over to the Islands. As most did seem like tourist on the outward.


Is the train absolutely full and standing during July and August?

Couldn't imagine it'd be much fun in the heat if it was standing room.

Noticed a levered signal box on route between Fort William and Mallaig. Can't remember at which station. We waited there but the signal box appeared to be unstaffed, although there was a coat hanging up. The driver was heard speaking remotely to the signaller though. So I'm guessing the signalling has been renewed now?

 

[sprinterguy]

Noticed a levered signal box on route between Fort William and Mallaig. Can't remember at which station. We waited there but the signal box appeared to be unstaffed, although there was a coat hanging up. The driver was heard speaking remotely to the signaller though. So I'm guessing the signalling has been renewed now?

Signalling on the West Highland Line between Helensburgh and Oban/Mallaig since the the mid to late eighties has been by Radio Electronic Token Block, controlled from Banavie Signalling Centre which you will have passed en route. However a levered 'box will probably have been Fort William Junction box, which is responsible for local control of the Fort William area by conventional signalling.

There are more details of the arrangement here:
http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/RETB+Banavie+North

 

[gcmozart]

Was 2 car when I got it in December

 

[ainsworth74]

Noticed a levered signal box on route between Fort William and Mallaig. Can't remember at which station. We waited there but the signal box appeared to be unstaffed, although there was a coat hanging up. The driver was heard speaking remotely to the signaller though. So I'm guessing the signalling has been renewed now?

It's all RETB up there from Helensburgh Upper to Oban/Fort William/Mallaig and controlled from Banavie. Has been since the mid-80s.

 

[InOban]

The West Highland Lines have the most extreme ratio between high and low season traffic of any route in the UK. After all, the train which hit a landslide in February had only 5 passengers.
Many of the bookings between FTW and Mallaig are indeed tours, often coach tours and may well return by steam.

The popularity of this means that more passengers travel between FTW and Mallaig than between FTW and Glasgow, second only to Glasgow to Oban.

 

[Tractor2018]

It's all RETB up there from Helensburgh Upper to Oban/Fort William/Mallaig and controlled from Banavie. Has been since the mid-80s.

Mostly.

Fort William station limits aren't RETB under Banavie, that's controlled by FTW Junction box - semaphore and colour light.

 

[Tractor2018]

After all, the train which hit a landslide in February had only 5 passengers.

I take your point, but the quoted portion isn't a great example. That's more to do with the time of day and location, rather than season. For example, 0521 ex Oban even in high summer will frequently have around 5 people on it. 10 is a good day.

 

[Mike395]

I too was up on that branch last week travelling between Glasgow and Lochailort (on the Mallaig branch) - on the outward we had 6 cars to Crianlarich, where we lost two, then a further two were detached at Fort William, which made the Fort William-Mallaig bit the busiest section of the journey! Coming back I was surprised to see that 4 cars travelled down from Mallaig, which joined with 2 cars from the Oban branch at Crianlarich.

RETB signalling is in place on virtually the whole line after leaving the electrified lines at Helensburgh.

(As an aside, it was my first time up on the line, and absolutely loved it! Easily the most scenic railway journey I've done...)

 

[scotraildriver]

Passenger loadings also vary wildly day to day. The 12.21 from Glasgow is often only two thirds full even in summer. But you can get the large groups like Rail Britain, Great Rail Journeys, Shearings etc booking out 2 full coaches then it is packed. Totally different one day to the next. And it's completely empty October to March.

 

[Highlandspring]

However a levered 'box will probably have been Fort William Junction box, which is responsible for local control of the Fort William area by conventional signalling.

Fort William Jn isn’t obvious to passengers viewing it from a train and isn’t at a station - the OP is very probably referring to Glenfinnan signalbox which has been turned into a museum. The box at Arisaig still exists but is boarded up.

 

[Kite159]

Passenger loadings also vary wildly day to day. The 12.21 from Glasgow is often only two thirds full even in summer. But you can get the large groups like Rail Britain, Great Rail Journrys, Shearings etc booking out 2 full coaches then it is packed. Totally different one day to the next. And it's completely empty October to Match.

Very much like the Kyle line where tour companies will block book seats for a one-way journey with the passengers meeting up with a bus at the other end to carry on to the islands.

---

4-coaches beyond Fort William to Mallaig means it is local door only at all the intermediate stations. As for people moaning they are sitting backwards nothing new there as it's a common moan when services reverse in direction on route.

 

[InOban]

I take your point, but the quoted portion isn't a great example. That's more to do with the time of day and location, rather than season. For example, 0521 ex Oban even in high summer will frequently have around 5 people on it. 10 is a good day.

Not what I've heard. Double figures are usual, twenty not unknown. It's been one of the successes of the extra Oban trains.
Certainly the season on FW to Mallaig has got longer. Apparently there are groups of Japanese turning up in midwinter.

The signalbox is located at Banavie, of course, because it controls the swing bridge over the Caledonian Canal.

 

[Tractor2018]

Not what I've heard. Double figures are usual, twenty not unknown. It's been one of the successes of the extra Oban trains.

OK. The last 2 years must have seen an improvement over the first 2 years of the new services.

 

[scotraildriver]

The 20.36 from Oban frequently carries no passengers at all between Taynuilt and Glasgow with the most I've seen in high season about 20. The additional Oban services haven't increased numbers all that much, more spread passengers throughout the day. The 08.21 and 18.21 departures from Queen St are notable quieter than they were 5 years ago.

 

[InOban]

certainly the 18.21 will be quieter as most take 16.37. Until the extra trains, the 8.21 would have run as two separate 4-coach trains in the summer. Although many passengers now use the 10.37, it's not enough to prevent severe overcrowding on the 2-coach Oban portion. The record is > 100 standing.

When the extra trains were introduced, there was a sudden jump, corresponding to the school pupils, but since then there has been steady growth on both Oban and FW services.

I agree that the 20.36 is essentially an ECS working. It reaches QS after every other service has finished.

 

[scotraildriver]

Not quite. There are still departures to Perth, Stirling and Cumbernauld after it arrives.

 

[47271]

I'm not so sure about Mallaig, it's a long time since I was a passenger on the West Highland, but in my experience overcrowding on Kyle trains is almost always caused by coach parties block booking one coach of the 158 and leaving the rest of us to fight it out.

I was particularly annoyed a few years ago to pay a small fortune for my wife and myself to travel from Kyle to Inverness and back for the ride (we were on holiday on Skye and the weather was bad) to overhear someone buy a Club 50 or whatever it was in those days to Edinburgh for half what what we were each paying, and then to join the train to find it almost fully reserved.

We very nearly had to stand to take in the scenery - not one of the great railway journeys of the world.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

I did the Mallaig and Kyle routes last summer and on both occasions on the return leg half of the train had been booked by coach parties.

 

[Kite159]

I'm not so sure about Mallaig, it's a long time since I was a passenger on the West Highland, but in my experience overcrowding on Kyle trains is almost always caused by coach parties block booking one coach of the 158 and leaving the rest of us to fight it out.

I was particularly annoyed a few years ago to pay a small fortune for my wife and myself to travel from Kyle to Inverness and back for the ride (we were on holiday on Skye and the weather was bad) to overhear someone buy a Club 50 or whatever it was in those days to Edinburgh for half what what we were each paying, and then to join the train to find it almost fully reserved.

We very nearly had to stand to take in the scenery - not one of the great railway journeys of the world.

At least with the 158s on the Kyle line, there is a small section of unreservable seating where the former 1st class area used to be. Not sure if there is any unnumbered seats on the 156 which can't be reserved

 

[scotraildriver]

I've never seen one fully reserved. Suspect some seats are unavailable for reservation. Equally I can never understand why people DON'T book seats. It's a 3 and a half hour journey minimum, almost everyone goes for a specific train so they know which one to book in advance. I personally would never undertake a journey of that length without a guaranteed seat, anywhere in the world.

 

[pt_mad]

Fort William Jn isn’t obvious to passengers viewing it from a train and isn’t at a station - the OP is very probably referring to Glenfinnan signalbox which has been turned into a museum. The box at Arisaig still exists but is boarded up.

Does the Glenfinnan signal box have much in it as regards a museum? And would it appear like a normal signal box to passengers in the train? (Jacket hanging up etc)?

 

[Mike99]

I think that makes at least 3 of us on the forum that did Fort William to Mallaig last week, I did it on Thursday 17th on the 12:12 ex FTW and returned on the same 4 car, 2*158 from Mallaig at 16:05, it was very full most seats taken on the outbound but plenty of room on the return from Mallaig. I had travelled up form Euston on the sleeper and took the return back from Mallaig to Glasgow Queen Street

 

[InOban]

156, not 158!

And while it is reasonable for all the visitors to reserve seats, there are, believe it or not, residents who need to make short notice trips, particularly on the Oban line.

 

[Highlandspring]

Does the Glenfinnan signal box have much in it as regards a museum? And would it appear like a normal signal box to passengers in the train? (Jacket hanging up etc)?

http://glenfinnanstationmuseum.co.uk/facilities/signal-box/

 

[theironroad]

I did ftw to glq in January and it wasn't too busy, very nice in the snow.

I had been thinking about doing a trip out mallaig, but reading some of the reports here, I'm going off the idea...it's nice to have a bit of leg room.

 

[Tractor2018]

I had been thinking about doing a trip out mallaig, but reading some of the reports here, I'm going off the idea...it's nice to have a bit of leg room.

Off season you'd have plenty leg room.

 

[DuncanS]

I've never seen one fully reserved. Suspect some seats are unavailable for reservation. Equally I can never understand why people DON'T book seats. It's a 3 and a half hour journey minimum, almost everyone goes for a specific train so they know which one to book in advance. I personally would never undertake a journey of that length without a guaranteed seat, anywhere in the world.

When I did it last year and both carriages were booked by coach tours there were 4 seats at the end of the carriage that were free for everyone else - my £5 ticket wouldn't allow me a reservation either.

 

[misterredmist]

myself and my girlfriend traveled Inverness - Kyle , picked up a hire care, spent 3 days on Skye, dropped the car back at Mallaig and used the train back to Glasgow, in June 2016. Whilst both services were busy, there were enough seats for everyone , though we did have reserved seats. I do recall that the midges were out in force on the platform at Mallaig whilst passengers waited for the doors to open. Was glad we had the 'Avon skin so soft' handy to apply to send the midges to the other passengers

 

[glenbogle]

Noticed a levered signal box on route between Fort William and Mallaig. Can't remember at which station. We waited there but the signal box appeared to be unstaffed, although there was a coat hanging up. The driver was heard speaking remotely to the signaller though. So I'm guessing the signalling has been renewed now?

Corpach has/had a signal box for the pulp and paper mill and the level crossing. Unsure if it’s still there.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I've got an Advance for FTW-DMR but have not been allocated seats (it's a "Coach * Seat **" counted place one). Should I worry about potentially having to stand? I'm travelling in mid-June on the morning departure.