Glasgow Queen Street refurbishment and remodelling

[GusB]

Anything built on ex railway land can easily be removed without impacting on the city's heritage.

Are you saying that anything built on the site of an old railway station contributes nothing to the heritage of a city?

 

[GrimShady]

Are you saying that anything built on the site of an old railway station contributes nothing to the heritage of a city?

Not when it's 1960s brutalist "architecture" or today's assembly of endless lumps of glass. Is there any listed buildings on ex railway land?

 

[GusB]

Some people appreciate brutalist architecture as much as others appreciate Georgian, Tudor, Gothic or whatever. I'm no expert on architecture, but "heritage" doesn't stop at a specific moment in time. My old secondary school was a concrete monstrosity that leaked when it rained, but it was of its time when it was built, and I'm now actually quite sad that it has gone.

 

[GrimShady]

Some people appreciate brutalist architecture as much as others appreciate Georgian, Tudor, Gothic or whatever. I'm no expert on architecture, but "heritage" doesn't stop at a specific moment in time. My old secondary school was a concrete monstrosity that leaked when it rained, but it was of its time when it was built, and I'm now actually quite sad that it has gone.

True but for the most part we're talking about horrific buildings inflicted up society not the odd actually interesting building representing that style. These constructs are standing in the way of progress just as once the railway was described as. Planning transport infrastructure for the future should take priority.

 

[alangla]

Glasgow had a huge provison of railways until the powers that be decided to destroy most of it

Yet as late as 2016 (I think) the bridge abutments for the Haghill chord near Parkhead were being demolished to ease a road junction and a housing development was built on part of the track bed. Realistically, there aren't going to be any rail developments in seriously built up areas other than small things like the Anniesland connection or really big projects like HS2.

(if anyone is looking for the above, look for the junction of Todd Street and Carntyne Road just north of where the Carntyne to Bellgrove line crosses Duke Street)

 

[Mordac]

Some people appreciate brutalist architecture as much as others appreciate Georgian, Tudor, Gothic or whatever. I'm no expert on architecture, but "heritage" doesn't stop at a specific moment in time. My old secondary school was a concrete monstrosity that leaked when it rained, but it was of its time when it was built, and I'm now actually quite sad that it has gone.

These must be the people who listed carbuncles like Preston Bus Station and Cumbernauld Town Centre. These people need their head examined, IMHO.

 

[GrimShady]

These must be the people who listed carbuncles like Preston Bus Station and Cumbernauld Town Centre. These people need their head examined, IMHO.

Oh there are but in their defence these are unique examples of that style, not your standard run of the mill 60s office block.

 

[NSEFAN]

The world may have moved on but your never going to get prime sites built in the city centre anymore, that's why these former stations are still a good bet. Anything built on ex railway land can easily be removed without impacting on the city's heritage. Metro isn't going to solve the problem of more Intercity trains, even if it was the answer it would mean reducing the number of local heavy rail services to be replaced with metro lines.

The Glasgow subway no longer connects the population centers it once did. South of the river it's practically pointless!

If the Victorians made it work then surely we can too. Glasgow had a huge provison of railways until the powers that be decided to destroy most of it. We should be looking at reinstating most of the ex suburban network to rid ourselves of the evil bus curse.

The Victorians made it work because there was a railway bubble. Investors were pouring in mountains of cash that allowed massive termini to be constructed. Nowadays land is expensive and so tunneling is preferable where land is expensive. If there's capacity issues at Queen Street, or former suburban networks are to be re-opened, it may be better for example to create a north-south route under Glasgow to connect the two lines. This way there's more room for intercity trains at the high-level stations whilst the commuter services on either side of the Cylde are linked up, creating a better north-south connection than exists currently, so it's win-win. The opportunity to build a modern railway should be taken, rather than trying to shoehorn it into existing legacy railway alignments, as if that is the only way that new lines or stations can be built.

 

[mcmad]

If there's capacity issues at Queen Street, or former suburban networks are to be re-opened, it may be better for example to create a north-south route under Glasgow to connect the two lines. This way there's more room for intercity trains at the high-level stations whilst the commuter services on either side of the Cylde are linked up, creating a better north-south connection than exists currently, so it's win-win. The opportunity to build a modern railway should be taken, rather than trying to shoehorn it into existing legacy railway alignments, as if that is the only way that new lines or stations can be built.

As has been seen with the Airdrie - Bathgate line, linking trains running the width of the country just means that delays in one part spread across the country which isn't helping anyone. Originally was the borders service not to be linked to the Fife circle but, other than a few peak services, that idea was quickly binned.

 

[deltic08]

The Victorians made it work because there was a railway bubble. Investors were pouring in mountains of cash that allowed massive termini to be constructed. Nowadays land is expensive and so tunneling is preferable where land is expensive. If there's capacity issues at Queen Street, or former suburban networks are to be re-opened, it may be better for example to create a north-south route under Glasgow to connect the two lines. This way there's more room for intercity trains at the high-level stations whilst the commuter services on either side of the Cylde are linked up, creating a better north-south connection than exists currently, so it's win-win. The opportunity to build a modern railway should be taken, rather than trying to shoehorn it into existing legacy railway alignments, as if that is the only way that new lines or stations can be built.

If that is the solution, why procrastinate, get on with it. Surely it wont cost as much as the new Forth road bridge?

 

[GrimShady]

The Victorians made it work because there was a railway bubble. Investors were pouring in mountains of cash that allowed massive termini to be constructed. Nowadays land is expensive and so tunneling is preferable where land is expensive. If there's capacity issues at Queen Street, or former suburban networks are to be re-opened, it may be better for example to create a north-south route under Glasgow to connect the two lines. This way there's more room for intercity trains at the high-level stations whilst the commuter services on either side of the Cylde are linked up, creating a better north-south connection than exists currently, so it's win-win. The opportunity to build a modern railway should be taken, rather than trying to shoehorn it into existing legacy railway alignments, as if that is the only way that new lines or stations can be built.

Compulsory purchase is the way forward, it doesn't have to be expensive. I doubt buying land back this way is more expensive than underground construction which as we know is massively expensive. It would be interesting to find out though.

A new St Enoch would solve the North South issue even if the trains did reverse.

I would have thought that with modern traction and signaling that any drawbacks of the Victorian alignments could be over come, I could be wrong though.

 

[NSEFAN]

As has been seen with the Airdrie - Bathgate line, linking trains running the width of the country just means that delays in one part spread across the country which isn't helping anyone. Originally was the borders service not to be linked to the Fife circle but, other than a few peak services, that idea was quickly binned.

I agree that there are drawbacks, Thameslink is a more extreme example of this, where the core is at capacity and so trains absolutely must be on time when they get to the core for the timetable to work. It's not a good idea to run a railway at maximum capacity in this way, so some recovery time and slack is essential. Regarding the Borders railway, weren't the problems that there was not enough units to reliably cover the service, meaning both more intense use of the fleet (hence more failures) and also less recovery time being added to the schedule to keep things reliable?

If that is the solution, why procrastinate, get on with it. Surely it wont cost as much as the new Forth road bridge?

I honestly don't know the scale of the relative costings. Certainly in London it appears that building new heavy rail lines is better done underground, see both the Crossrail and HS2 projects. Perhaps in Glasgow the land is cheaper, or the terrain is more difficult for tunnelling, which could push the balance in favour of a new surface-level line and stations?

Compulsory purchase is the way forward, it doesn't have to be expensive. I doubt buying land back this way is more expensive than underground construction which as we know is massively expensive. It would be interesting to find out though.

A new St Enoch would solve the North South issue even if the trains did reverse.

I would have thought that with modern traction and signaling that any drawbacks of the Victorian alignments could be over come, I could be wrong though.

Compulsory purchase will surely be as expensive as the land required? Whilst trains can be turned round quicker than in the past thanks to various improvements in traction and signalling, you will still need a larger land mass for the station to have multiple terminus platforms, compared to a through station for the same number of trains per hour.

Above ground, you will be forced to build where the land is affordable, since infrastructure projects like this are heavily influenced by politicians, who think that "cheap" and "best value" are the same thing... On the other hand, a line built underground can build almost anywhere and not vary too much in cost if the terrain is fairly consistent, so for a given budget you have more flexibility as to where the line is built. Hence, stations can be built where they need to be (within reason).

 

[FS-2-11]

The trouble is too much has been built on ex railway land and we can't go back. As part of the Beeching Act should have been a clause forbidding the sale of and building on ex railway land. There are many closed lines that could do with reinstatement due to population explosion and could be reinstated relatively cheaply and easily if it wasn't for the small housing estate development or supermarket on the station site.

As I've said elsewhere, and as was proved in Glasgow over the last 40-50 years, this wouldn't be a problem if the development stood on the route of a proposed motorway - down it comes.

 

[railjock]

As has been seen with the Airdrie - Bathgate line, linking trains running the width of the country just means that delays in one part spread across the country which isn't helping anyone. Originally was the borders service not to be linked to the Fife circle but, other than a few peak services, that idea was quickly binned.

The Borders Railway was just an extension of the Edinburgh CrossRail service which originally were alternate extensions to trains from Bathgate and Dunblane. On full re-opening the service was effectively isolated apart from a few peak time services. I have to say the few through services are the most useful as you can go straight to/from Haymarket without changing.

 

[NotATrainspott]

As has been seen with the Airdrie - Bathgate line, linking trains running the width of the country just means that delays in one part spread across the country which isn't helping anyone. Originally was the borders service not to be linked to the Fife circle but, other than a few peak services, that idea was quickly binned.

In Glasgow, the benefit of linking north and south networks would exceed the drawbacks from letting disruption spread. In Edinburgh, the worst-case scenario is a same-station interchange under the roof at Waverley. Needing to cross Glasgow city centre is a much bigger challenge.

There's a bit of an imbalance between the number of trains to the north and south of the city. The concept for the tunnel involves a junction to serve both the Croy and Cumbernauld lines directly. I expect we'd see some sort of turnback station on the northern edge of the city so that not every service needs to be paired.

If that is the solution, why procrastinate, get on with it. Surely it wont cost as much as the new Forth road bridge?

It's the 'nuclear option' to solve capacity problems in the west of Scotland. It's definitely going to happen, but there are a few more things that can and should be done first. Most obviously, you can't have a tunnel before the trains are electrified unless you want to add the whole of EGIP onto the cost of the tunnel scheme. The tunnel would have happen only once all of the other easy network improvements have been done in Glasgow. For instance, the doubling of the East Kilbride line.

Compulsory purchase is the way forward, it doesn't have to be expensive. I doubt buying land back this way is more expensive than underground construction which as we know is massively expensive. It would be interesting to find out though.

A new St Enoch would solve the North South issue even if the trains did reverse.

I would have thought that with modern traction and signaling that any drawbacks of the Victorian alignments could be over come, I could be wrong though.

St Enoch doesn't solve the north-south issue. The only viable form of it would be as additional platforms for Glasgow Central. Running to the north would require crossing the North Clyde line on the flat and conflicting movements at Cowlairs or a reversal at Springburn.

 

[alangla]

Oh no, not Glasgow Crossrail again the big issue, as you've identified, is the slow crawl across the North Clyde on the flat and up via Barnhill to Cowlairs, also the slow crawl over the City Union to Shields junction. If a new St. Enoch was to be built on the King Street NCP site, I guess you could divert some North Clyde services to terminate there to create paths through Partick but other than that it would add a lot of delay vs going in to Central or Queen Street high level. I'm not convinced that there's any need to join both sides together over & above the 398 bus

 

[RLBH]

As I've said elsewhere, and as was proved in Glasgow over the last 40-50 years, this wouldn't be a problem if the development stood on the route of a proposed motorway - down it comes.

The key enabling factor for the M8 was that it was possible to come up with an integrated programme where the motorway ran through areas which were planned to be torn down and rebuilt for other reasons even without a new road. That's why so much of the motorway network wasn't built - as soon as taking over land specifically for it was required, there was massive resistance.

 

[385001]

Demolition work complete according to Network Rail.

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/new-lease-of-life-for-glasgow-queen-street-station

There is an interesting video showing some time-lapse footage at the link. Unfortunately, I can't link directly to it from here.

Friday 5 Oct 2018

Demolition work complete on Glasgow Queen Street station

The redevelopment of Glasgow Queen Street station reached another major milestone this week as the project team completed all of the demolition work needed to start building a bigger and brighter transport hub.

To mark the moment, Network Rail has released new time-lapse footage showing the changing landscape of the station. The footage features the removal of the eight-storey Consort House building, Consort House annex and the Millennium Hotel’s 1970’s extension from the city’s skyline.

Since January, the demolition team has worked more than 26,000 hours to safely remove over 14,000 tonnes of redundant material from the station site – the equivalent of 700 skips.

With 94% of demolition material now recycled and avoiding landfill, it is being given a new lease of life, becoming new products such as aggregate for the construction trade or wood chippings for equestrian centres.

Network Rail programme manager Tommy McPake said: “Demolishing redundant buildings in the heart of Glasgow and in a live station environment has been extremely challenging, with over 47,000 customers passing through the station each week day.

“By completing this stage in the project, we now have the additional space required to progress with transforming Glasgow Queen Street station. We are proud that our planned demolition method has ensured nearly all of the material removed from the site has been recycled for future use.

“I’d like to thank customers and the surrounding community for their patience as we build a bigger and brighter station for the city.”

The project team is now undertaking piling work to support the future expanded station concourse and work is progressing to build the new station basement.

Once completed, in 2020, the redeveloped Glasgow Queen Street station will provide extended platforms for longer trains of up to eight carriages - meaning more seats for passengers – and an expanded concourse with more circulation space in a contemporary and distinctive building.

The new station is being delivered as part of the Scottish Government-funded Edinburgh-Glasgow Improvement Programme.

 

[InOban]

Still a very unfinished area beside the temporary entrance.

 

[snowball]

What does the cartoon fish represent?

 

[InOban]

It's on the coat of arms of Glasgow, I think. Part of the legend of St Mungo/Kentigern.

 

[Altnabreac]

What does the cartoon fish represent?

It's from the hoardings designed by artist Gabriella Marcella:
https://www.networkrailmediacentre....eet-local-artist-gives-glasgow-station-a-lift

The fish with the ring it it's mouth comes from a legend about St Kentigern and is part of the Glasgow Coat of Arms
https://www.theglasgowstory.com/image/?inum=TGSA05045

if you're ever at Kelvinbridge Subway station there is a good example of the Coat of Arms on the road bridge just outside the station:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.8...4!1sk4F9Vgu03QFGvma-PEx-MA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

[deltic08]

Pity Queen St. wont be all electric by the time the new concourse is completed. All that glass will become clouded by HST diesel fumes.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I've been sitting on this update for over 2 weeks now because quite frankly I found it so boring that I just couldn't be bothered doing the voiceover and uploading it .

However, that stage has passed, and I've just about got the next one ready, but it might take a day or two yet. Things are happening, and will soon become visible to those other than pigeons and my trained seagull (sorry to drone on).

 

[PaxVobiscum]

OK - here's Update #28 as promised. A bit more action this time (the previous one was shot on a Saturday) with people actually doing things on site.

As a bonus there's a couple of trains featured at the end - a 365 again and a Scotrail HST in the station.

 

[och aye]

OK - here's Update #28 as promised. A bit more action this time (the previous one was shot on a Saturday) with people actually doing things on site.

As a bonus there's a couple of trains featured at the end - a 365 again and a Scotrail HST in the station.

Thanks again for the updates PaxVobiscum.

 

[Macwomble]

Thanks again for the updates PaxVobiscum.

Seconded

 

[InOban]

Thirded!

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Thanks again for the updates PaxVobiscum.

Seconded

Thirded!

Aww, shucks!

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Sorry no trains this time, but the new station steelwork is starting to appear.
There’s now viewing areas provided, similar to those provided in the station during the track and platform alterations in 2016.