Glasgow Queen Street refurbishment and remodelling

[lee56]

Because that would be even more disruptive and even more costly than the current plan.

I guess so plus they want to save money were possible

 

[edwin_m]

Most if not all of the concessions are major chains that have multiple locations across Glasgow. Costa alone has eight other outlets in the city centre, and that's before you go further out to the West End and so on. I don't think the other stores will be flooded with staff. Besides, the Glasgow Central location could be slightly busier with passengers going to Inverness and Aberdeen - so may well benefit from extra staffing.

Retail chains must be recruiting constantly to replace staff that leave due to all sorts of reasons, and I suspect in most shops the "churn" rate is quite high. So if they find they have some people surplus from the temporary closure of a branch at Queen Street, the only likely effect is a short pause in their normal recruitment for the Glasgow area.

 

[170401]

thanks for clearing that up plus summer still has daily commutes people don't stop work because its summer as time still moves on regardless of events people still need to get to work so by coming out and saying summer is low peak is wrong as people want to get to the coast or just families day out or need to work

So what 5 months would you choose? The busiest periods at Glasgow Queen street are August during the Edinburgh festival and December in the run up to Christmas.

The summer period June - August (Edinburgh festival excepted) are actually traditionally the quietest times of the year for public transport operators. Yes, more people will want to go out for day trips etc but this generally takes up off peak slack whereas peak times (Which is what dictates everything here) are generally less busy than at other times of the year. No one is saying everyone stops working for summer, just that enough people do to make a difference.

Environmental concerns are possibly another factor to consider. Works are more likely to be disrupted in winter due to the weather (Q st tunnel also acts as a big drain). Their is also more natural daylight which is handy for work being carried out outside the tunnel itself.

 

[NSEFAN]

Meanwhile, does anyone have any reports of how smoothly things are running today? From RTT it seems that trains have generally been running on time.

 

[Carntyne]

To get back on topic, the shops are closed because the platforms are being extended. Shops won't be there until the station is rebuilt over the next few years.

Works just now are tunnel slab track, conductor bar fitment, resignalling, station throat point work altered, OHL fitment in the train shed and platforms extended.

Cosmetic redevelopment comes after this is done, The first electric passenger trains running from Dec this year.

 

[route101]

Is this first time 158s and 170s have used Queen St Low Level?
Used service to edinburgh and Queen st to Waverley is quicker than the return though less interesting .
170s in Central are rare never seen a 170 in Central .

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Looking at realtimetrains, the trains diverted to/from Glasgow Central appear to stop at Cumbernauld.
This is not included in the Scotrail public timetable.
Do the trains actually stop there, and if so is it a technical stop (eg for a crew change), or can passengers actually get on/off?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G61416/2016/03/21/advanced

 

[najaB]

Looking at realtimetrains, the trains diverted to/from Glasgow Central appear to stop at Cumbernauld.

I could be wrong, but I believe any station that is in light typeface on Realtime Trains is an unadvertised stop so you wouldn't be able to board or alight. If this is the case in practice, I don't know.

 

[route:oxford]

Yes, that's my understanding. Although low number of passengers were reported, suggesting that they've found another way. Perhaps bus, perhaps car, perhaps working at home. Out of curiosity, it'd be interesting to see what journey times are like on the M8 in the next few days.

Perhaps part of the Easter wind-down?

 

[PHILIPE]

I could be wrong, but I believe any station that is in light typeface on Realtime Trains is an unadvertised stop so you wouldn't be able to board or alight. If this is the case in practice, I don't know.

They could well be train crew purpose stops in view of diversions and appropiate route knowledge

 

[swt_passenger]

I could be wrong, but I believe any station that is in light typeface on Realtime Trains is an unadvertised stop so you wouldn't be able to board or alight. If this is the case in practice, I don't know.

By cross referring to opentraintimes it can be confirmed (by means of the suffix letters after the station name) that it is an unadvertised stop - "N"; for a crew change - "C".

 

[PHILIPE]

Journey Planner does not indicate through train from Aberdeen, change twice at Stirling and Camelon of all places

 

[NotATrainspott]

At Cumbernauld, freight drivers who know the route into Central get on and off trains from the North. When I was on board one of these services, the passenger doors didn't open and there was no announcement of the stop. The ScotRail drivers know the route via Cumbernauld but they don't know the route via Baillieston.

As an aside, it is also the case now that the chord between Kirkwood and Coatbridge Central is fully wired. This hadn't been completed when the first EMUs starting running on the Whifflet line, since the curve is normally not used for passenger services, but it is useful to know that there will be an electrified diversionary route for other services. All we need is for the Anniesland route to be done as soon as possible and Queen Street will be ready for whatever the world can throw at it.

 

[sng7]

Journey Planner does not indicate through train from Aberdeen, change twice at Stirling and Camelon of all places

They are diverted to Central so if you are just putting in Queen Street that may explain it.

 

[PHILIPE]

They are diverted to Central so if you are just putting in Queen Street that may explain it.

I put in Cumbernauld

 

[68000]

Seen a couple of 170s in Central today, had to do a double take as I was getting on the Lanark train

 

[route101]

Seen a couple of 170s in Central today, had to do a double take as I was getting on the Lanark train

Yeah strange sight ! When was the last time a 170 was in central?

 

[me123]

I've only ever known 170432 to go to GLC.

Back in 2010 170432 was reduced to a two car unit and made an appearance in Central on a Shotts line run (picture).

Last year, the same unit was involved in a collision with a tree in Moray, and somehow eventually made its way to Shields Depot including a turnaround in GLC Platform 4 (click).

I don't claim this to be comprehensive, but that's all the Turbo action in Central that I'm aware of. And rather bizarrely, both the same train!

 

[47271]

Looking at realtimetrains, the trains diverted to/from Glasgow Central appear to stop at Cumbernauld.
This is not included in the Scotrail public timetable.
Do the trains actually stop there, and if so is it a technical stop (eg for a crew change), or can passengers actually get on/off?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G61416/2016/03/21/advanced

My Aberdeen to Central train stopped at Cumbernauld this morning and as far as I could see only the conductor's door was opened. A passenger asked him if it was quicker to get off there for Motherwell and, after a brief chat, she decided to stay on to Central. So they will probably let you off or on, you just need to find the conductor's door and be nice to them. We were stopped for a couple of minutes, so there was no tearing rush.

And, yes, someone who looked like a DB driver joined the train there.

 

[Class 170101]

I am surprised Scotrail didn't train their own train crew on this route given how long this is going on for.

 

[najaB]

I am surprised Scotrail didn't train their own train crew on this route given how long this is going on for.

If I was running things, I would have the drivers stay in the cab in order to learn it. By the end of May there wouldn't be any more need for the freight drivers.

 

[Hazelkaye]

Looking at realtimetrains, the trains diverted to/from Glasgow Central appear to stop at Cumbernauld.
This is not included in the Scotrail public timetable.
Do the trains actually stop there, and if so is it a technical stop (eg for a crew change), or can passengers actually get on/off?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G61416/2016/03/21/advanced

YES - THEY DO STOP AT CUMBERNAULD - but only for crew change purposes - more's the pity!
The local Cumbernauld Commuters' Association (CCA) of which I'm secretary, made representation to ScotRail as soon as it became aware of the situation (ie the placing of temporary portacabins for crew use at Cumbernauld).
ScotRail, belatedly - at the CCA's behest, gave consideration to calls - but as one platform at Cumbernauld is too short (by only a few feet) for 6-car Class 170s to call safely, it decided against the request. Both platforms CAN accommodate 6-car 318, 320 & 344 EMU formations - hence the 6-car stop boards for their use!
A 'contradiction in terms' par excellence - if ever there was one! QUITE, QUITE LUDICROUS!!
As Cumbernauld-Falkirk Grahamston is the only diversionary route for the main E&G, the CCA has now suggested that Cumbernauld's platforms should logically be extended to 8-car length to accommodate the new 8-car (2x4-car) 385s - if and when required, esp as Cumbernauld will have new through direct services to/from Glasgow-Edinburgh from 2018.
This suggestion is now being 'considered'!

 

[Ironside]

YES - THEY DO STOP AT CUMBERNAULD - but only for crew change purposes - more's the pity!
The local Cumbernauld Commuters' Association (CCA) made representation to ScotRail as soon as it became aware of the situation (ie the placing of temporary portacabins for crew use at Cumbernauld).
ScotRail gave consideration to calls - but as one platform at Cumbernauld is too short (by only a few feet) for 6-car Class 170s to call safely, it decided against the request. Both platforms CAN accommodate 6-car 318, 320 & 344 EMUs!
As Cumbernauld-Falkirk Grahamston is the only diversionary route for the main E&G, the CCA has now suggested that Cumbernauld's platforms should logically be extended to 8-car length to accommodate the new 8-car 385s - if and when required, esp as Cumbernauld will have new through direct services to/from Glasgow-Edinburgh from 2018.
This suggestion now is being 'considered'!

Welcome to the forum! And great first post!

 

[jopsuk]

YES - THEY DO STOP AT CUMBERNAULD - but only for crew change purposes - more's the pity!
The local Cumbernauld Commuters' Association (CCA) of which I'm secretary, made representation to ScotRail as soon as it became aware of the situation (ie the placing of temporary portacabins for crew use at Cumbernauld).
ScotRail, belatedly - at the CCA's behest, gave consideration to calls - but as one platform at Cumbernauld is too short (by only a few feet) for 6-car Class 170s to call safely, it decided against the request. Both platforms CAN accommodate 6-car 318, 320 & 344 EMU formations!
QUITE LUDICROUS!!
As Cumbernauld-Falkirk Grahamston is the only diversionary route for the main E&G, the CCA has now suggested that Cumbernauld's platforms should logically be extended to 8-car length to accommodate the new 8-car (2x4-car) 385s - if and when required, esp as Cumbernauld will have new through direct services to/from Glasgow-Edinburgh from 2018.
This suggestion is now being 'considered'!

Six car 318/320/334 formations are ~120m long. Six car 170 formations are ~139m long- but so are the future six car 385 formations, so it would be sensible for those at least to be accomodated, as the Queen Street-Cumbernauld-Grahamston-Edinburgh stopper service will use the 3-car units; the four car units (with 1st class) are only for the mainline express service via Falkirk High

 

[Hazelkaye]

Six car 318/320/334 formations are ~120m long. Six car 170 formations are ~139m long- but so are the future six car 385 formations, so it would be sensible for those at least to be accomodated, as the Queen Street-Cumbernauld-Grahamston-Edinburgh stopper service will use the 3-car units; the four car units (with 1st class) are only for the mainline express service via Falkirk High

READ WHAT I WROTE ABOUT DIVERSIONS!!!
esp as services could thus call at Cumbernauld, in lieu of Croy!

 

[Carntyne]

I was assuming the new units would have ASDO, meaning no need to extend platforms, so long as the stations were in the system. I'm not an expert though so couldn't say if ASDO copes with unplanned diversions or needs a route set at beginning of the journey.

 

[me123]

YES - THEY DO STOP AT CUMBERNAULD - but only for crew change purposes - more's the pity!
The local Cumbernauld Commuters' Association (CCA) of which I'm secretary, made representation to ScotRail as soon as it became aware of the situation (ie the placing of temporary portacabins for crew use at Cumbernauld).
ScotRail gave consideration to calls - but as one platform at Cumbernauld is too short (by only a few feet) for 6-car Class 170s to call safely, it decided against the request. Both platforms CAN accommodate 6-car 318, 320 & 344 EMU formations!
QUITE LUDICROUS!!

It might seem ludicrous, but it's actually not.

I'm not sure if you're aware that a 170 carriage is 3m longer than a 318/320/334 carriage? Class 318/320/334 trains have 20m long carriages, whereas the 170 (and 156 and 158 FWIW) are 23m long. So, for a six carriage train, that's 18 extra metres that need to fit onto the platform - in essence, not far off a a 7 car train with 20m carriages.

It could make sense to extend Cumbernauld's platforms to 8 carriage - as you've said, it'll be a main diversionary route for the mainline, and could be a substitute Croy call. Should be easy to extend platforms towards the South, although you would need to move the (new) signal at the end of P2. As such, extension to 8 cars it may not happen until there's a definite need to divert this way in the future.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

READ WHAT I WROTE ABOUT DIVERSIONS!!!
esp as services could thus call at Cumbernauld, in lieu of Croy!

As I've subsequently said, it could be something to consider for a planned diversion in the future, but there's much better things to be spending time and money on the short term than planning for hypothetical closures.

PS - writing in ALL CAPS is considered to be quite rude.

 

[cf111]

I was assuming the new units would have ASDO, meaning no need to extend platforms, so long as the stations were in the system. I'm not an expert though so couldn't say if ASDO copes with unplanned diversions or needs a route set at beginning of the journey.

Do some ASDO systems not work with beacons so that the train "knows" how long the platform its sitting in is?

They might not be a sophisticated as that, I've no first-hand experience of them.

 

[jopsuk]

How long are the current platforms at Cumbernauld? If they only just take a 6car 20m EMU then they'll need to be extended by over 50% to accommodate an 8-car 385- but ASDO systems do work on individual platforms being encoded.

 

[Class 170101]

As an aside the line is being used for diversionary purposes post 21:30 Sunday to Thursday nights and is used at other times. However it means other services are either bustituted or cancelled to make room for diverted services so 8 car 23m platforms seem prudent.