Glenvale Transport (GTL) - your memories

[robertclark125]

2010 will mark five years since Glenvale Transport sold out to Stagecoach, and became Stagecoach Merseyside. GTL was formed as a result of the Competition Commission requirement that Arriva sell off Gillmoss depot, when it acquired MTL holdings, and merged it with their own North western oeprations.

So what are your memories, feelings, experiences, and opinions of Glenvale? Were the better than Arriva, or worse?

 

[mbonwick]

I can't say I've ever experienced GTL, but from what I heard they were a disaster.
Poor routes, terrible vehicles, rude staff....

 

[KendalKing]

I never experience GTL as a driver or passenger. But from what i can remember it become the dumping ground for redundant former London Buses Titans, at times their depot looked more like a bus scrapyard, then a bus depot.

 

[mbonwick]

Just thought I'd also mention that a lot of ex-GTL Titans and B6 ended up in the corner of Stagecoach North West's Morecambe depot, where they were completely stripped of parts for spares.

And when I say stripped, I mean stripped. Not 1 left with an engine or seats. Many left with no exterior panels.
The reason Morecambe was chosen for this work over Lillyhall was because at the time Morecambe had the NW's largest fleet of B6s and Titans.

 

[driver9000]

Just thought I'd also mention that a lot of ex-GTL Titans and B6 ended up in the corner of Stagecoach North West's Morecambe depot, where they were completely stripped of parts for spares.

And when I say stripped, I mean stripped. Not 1 left with an engine or seats. Many left with no exterior panels.
The reason Morecambe was chosen for this work over Lillyhall was because at the time Morecambe had the NW's largest fleet of B6s and Titans.

At least one Titan left as a virtual skeleton parts of the bus were framework only with no panelling at all!

 

[mbonwick]

Shows how desperate Morecambe were for parts! I keep wondering how much those Titans saved Stagecoach in spares though.....

 

[robertclark125]

During its short independent existence, Glenvale also boguht CMT buses of Aintree. Do you all think that CMT's passengers got a better or worse deal under Glenvale?

Ironically, during the CC investigation into the MTL takeover by Arriva, CMT was found to be the only major competitor to Arriva, giving the reason why Gillmoss had to be sold.

 

[Tom C]

I done 5 trips to Liverpool just to do GTL.

For anyone who loved Titans and Metro's (especially London ones) this was your Mecca and I spent many, many happy days (and one or two nights) photoing and riding one of the strangest, scruffiest companies I have ever seen but you know I would have GTL back in an instant even with the battered Titans and Metro's than Stagecoach and indeed any of the low floor cack that passes for buses now.

Sad day when GTL sold out to Stagecoach!

During its short independent existence, Glenvale also boguht CMT buses of Aintree. Do you all think that CMT's passengers got a better or worse deal under Glenvale?

To be honest, I think GTL were not that bad a company as people would like to make out. The reason people say GTL were terrible was because the buses were well worn!. GTL painted several of the Titans in all red and to be honest they looked fine.

As for CMT, they were a very small company as I recall with Lynxes and Darts which ended up being used by GTL anyway and service wise they were no worse!

 

[robertclark125]

Did Glenvale perhaps go wrong at the start, by launching route after route in competition with Arriva, outwith the normal Gillmoss area, rather than concentrating at first on its main area, developing it, getting in new rolling stock, which would've been better for the customer?

 

[mbonwick]

No, they had to compete with Arriva from the outset as Arriva were bound by Competition Rules. If they'd left it, Arriva would have run them off the road as the reconciliatory period would have been over.

 

[robertclark125]

Glenvale competed with Arriva in areas outwith the Gillmoss normal depot operating area. Arriva were free to compete with the new services, and did on a few. Glenvale launched new rotues but these were loss making. I'm thinknig GTL should've consolidated their market first, before going into battle with Arriva.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
What if, during the 3 year ban imposed on Arriva from competing with the services Glenvale acquired, another firm launched a few routes paralelling existing GTL routes, and then Arriva boguht out that firm?

 

[royaloak]

Arriva would have to sell off or stop running the competing services as they would be in breach of their operators licence.

 

[robertclark125]

On the aspect of acquisitions, supposing Arriva was competing all over the CMT network, prior to Glenvale buying CMT. Surely Arriva would be allowed to maintain the routes it already had, as even though it's now competing with Glenvale before the ban ends, it was on the routes before Glenvale came.

 

[robertclark125]

How many ex Glenvale/CMT buses are currently runnig with Stagecoach Merseyside, and how many are running elsewhere in teh Stagecoach UK empire?

 

[plannerman]

As far as bus users and the general public are concerned, the Stagecoach takeover was good news. GTL's fleet were old, dirty, polluting, and gave a terrible impression. When a Titan charged up from Mann Island to James Street, the blue haze hung in the air for ages! Stagecoach started by withdrawing most of the fleet, and brining in their own B10M's etc, and then followed up by renewing the entire fleet with new vehicles (Dart SLF's). Four years on, they are renewing the fleet again, this time with Enviro's. Liverpool now has a modern, clean, low-floor bus fleet - something GTL would have taken years to accomplish, if they ever did.

 

[mbonwick]

I'd disagree slightly with renewing the fleet this time round.

It is the Dart SLFs that Stagecoach bought being replaced - fair enough, the E300s bring a capacity boost - but there are older, smaller Dart SLFs and B10Ls that should have been replaced.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

The Liberators didnt really need replacing... and short darts running through third world areas of liverpool is about right to be honest as there never that busy anyway

 

[mbonwick]

Fair play they may not need replacing, but I'm one of those people who is very keen to see a standard fleet across the whole Stagecoach UK Empire.

 

[robertclark125]

According to one persons fotopic site, GTL had its vehicle authorisation cut by the traffic commissioner, due to the age of its fleet. I can't find any evidence of this, as yet, but if it had had its authorisation cut, and had to withdraw services, would Arriva have been able to then replace those routes?

And also, if that claim is true, didn't it prove that those passengers on GTL's routes didn't get the best part of the deal?

 

[ivanhoe]

GTL was on a hiding to nothing from the start. The routes from Gillmoss were not as lucrative as the routes in the South End of the City and they lacked investment in new or nearly new Buses. Coupled with Arriva now going head to head on some of the more lucrative GTL routes, and the end was in site. Fair play to Stagecoach for reviving the routes and taking on Arriva in the South End(Routes 82 & 86) . The Fleet is much newer now but does Liverpool have a better bus service than before De-regulation? Overall, the answer is a big no! I do believe, however, that Stagecoach will be the major player on Merseyside in 5 years. They have momentum and Arriva will start to lose out on further routes in the South End of the City. ( have been known to be wrong though)

 

[317 forever]

My final Titan ride anywhere was with GTL in 2002, as was my final Metrobus mark 1 ride until Halifax Joint Committee in January. It was intriguing riding the Metrobus with Arriva moquette on a network they had just divested. In Kirkby I noticed the continuation of MTL livery (that was before all-red ex-CMT was taken up) and noticed how Kirkby gave the impression that the Arriva takeover of MTL had not happened!

Although Stagecoach are quite professional, I was saddened that Go-Ahead missed out on GTL as they had been preferred bidders in 2000 and this would have given them an ex-PTC operation. Mind you, there is hope yet. Deutsche Bahn seem mainly interested in continental and franchised operations (including UK rail and London buses) and may divest some commercial operations, including some in Merseyside to Go-Ahead!

 

[robertclark125]

Whatever happened to the two guys that founded Glenvale Transport, Dominic Brady was one, Ian somebody was the other. Are they still in the bus industry, does anyone know?