GN Class 717

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choochoochoo

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Apologies if this is posted in the wrong forum -Please feel to move/direct this question to the appropriate location

Just curious as I can't find any recent news on the Class 717 that GN are getting.

Is everything still on schedule as per GTR press releases ? Entry sometime this year ?

Are any of the drivers being trained on these yet ? Or is it similar enough to 700s to warrant cross qualification ?
 
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D365

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Have any units actually been completed or delivered yet? I thought that production was following on from the Class 707s.
 

Domh245

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They've recently produced a prototype front end. As of 29th March, the first unit was unbuilt, so I'd be surprised if there was one in service by December. When the order was finalised, the expected entry into service was 2018, which is more likely. Driver training won't have started yet, and I don't think that they are sufficiently similar to the 700s for it to be a cross qualification. The cab layout and undoubtedly a few other things will be different as a result of the different cab design.

 

choochoochoo

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They've recently produced a prototype front end. As of 29th March, the first unit was unbuilt, so I'd be surprised if there was one in service by December. When the order was finalised, the expected entry into service was 2018, which is more likely. Driver training won't have started yet, and I don't think that they are sufficiently similar to the 700s for it to be a cross qualification. The cab layout and undoubtedly a few other things will be different as a result of the different cab design.

Thanks for the info. Nice looking train - Can't wait to see it online.

Anybody know how long before a train enters service the drivers begin training on it. I assume that they have a simulator ready long before an actual train is built.
 

goblinuser

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Will the cabs be walk through or is that just a safety exit in case of failure in a limited clearance section (like on tube stock and class 378s)?
 

SprinterMan

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Have any units actually been completed or delivered yet? I thought that production was following on from the Class 707s.
None delivered yet. Current plan is first units in service May 2018, all units in service December 2018.

Apart from the cab, what other things are likely to change compared to the 700s?
No 1st class, no toilets, no yellow ends, limited to 30mph on 3rd rail. Apart from that, same as the 700s. :)

Will the cabs be walk through or is that just a safety exit in case of failure in a limited clearance section (like on tube stock and class 378s)?
Cab end doors are emergency exit only, just like 313s/319s/378s.

Adam :)
 
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jon0844

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They're fixed 6 car units so nothing to walk through to. They won't be joining up to make 12 car units. In passenger service at least.
 

bramling

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Which stations are too short for longer trains?
Many of them, including most importantly those between Drayton Park and Moorgate, can only hold 6 cars. The biggest limiting factor of all is the terminal platforms at Moorgate itself, extending this would be a very major piece of work, such that I don't think there have ever been plans for it.

Most Hertford Loop stations can only take 6 cars, although I suspect most could probably be fairly easily extended.
 

TheDavibob

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Which stations are too short for longer trains?
Essentially all of them. All stations south of Finsbury Park (Drayton Park, Highbury & Islington, Essex Road, Old Street and Moorgate) are not much over 120m long, so a 717 will snugly fit. Given the latter four are in tunnels, this is as long as they can be. I don't think there are any plans to run these units to Kings Cross (though I imagine they'll turn up there from time to time).
 

jon0844

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Which stations are too short for longer trains?
These trains are to go to Moorgate. Every platform on the Northern City line is six cars only. With no gangway, there's no way they're going to join up (besides for rescuing a stranded train perhaps) as nobody could get off the other set at ANY time!

I assume there's no plans for these to be used for other purposes (like standing in for a 700 or 387) except in an emergency, as they probably need all the stock they're getting. If they get diverted due to problems on the NCL, that doesn't count.

Plus at some stage (likely the next franchise) they'll likely be going to London Overground.

So, I stick to my assumption that they'll always be six cars and that's it.
 
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bramling

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These trains are to go to Moorgate. Every platform on the Northern City line is six cars only. With no gangway, there's no way they're going to join up (besides for rescuing a stranded train perhaps) as nobody could get off the other set at ANY time!

I assume there's no plans for these to be used for other purposes (like standing in for a 700 or 387) except in an emergency, as they probably need all the stock they're getting. If they get diverted due to problems on the NCL, that doesn't count.

Plus at some stage (likely the next franchise) they'll likely be going to London Overground.

So, I stick to my assumption that they'll always be six cars and that's it.
There are or certainly have been a couple of 4x313 workings which come out from Hornsey to King's Cross in the early morning and then split into two pairs before going their separate ways. It's conceivable similar could still happen with the 717s coming out as a pair and then splitting, unless there's any technical reason against it (can't see why there would be).
 
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jon0844

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Oh yes, for things like that they can and likely will join, but never in passenger service.

I've heard of 16 car trains running, although never seen it, with trains on FCC or Wagn in years gone by (not sure what class).

I assume a 12 car 700 can drag another, so that must be a sight to see? Imagine a future where you had 24 car trains in public service!
 

D365

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Not aware of any testing on NR metals as yet. The 710s are about to begin, so I can't imagine the 717s will be far behind.
 

dp21

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Have they even started building them yet? Normally there's some evidence around by now if they had?
 

Domh245

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Not aware of any testing on NR metals as yet. The 710s are about to begin, so I can't imagine the 717s will be far behind.
This being Siemens, you would usually expect them to do initial testing at wildenrath, and you would expect press releases about the units making their way to the UK before any NR testing.

I would expect them to be in production, intermediate cars if nothing else so that production can follow on from the 700s/707s
 

Skimble19

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Have they even started building them yet? Normally there's some evidence around by now if they had?
Yes, they have started building them, the first unit should be ready for testing reasonably soon.

I have to admit everyone has been a lot quieter than usual with these, but work is progressing. (Before anybody asks no I can’t provide any publicly accesible links at present).
 

dp21

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Yes, they have started building them, the first unit should be ready for testing reasonably soon.

I have to admit everyone has been a lot quieter than usual with these, but work is progressing. (Before anybody asks no I can’t provide any publicly accesible links at present).
Ah brill, thanks :)
 

SprinterMan

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Latest mutterings are that the first Class 717s will arrive in the last week of August, with the first one in service by the end of September. :)
 
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D365

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Guessing there will be no need for anything else other than running in due to familiarity with the 700s?
There will be some kind of conversion necessary, with the cab redesign and obviously the emergency procedure. Do the Moorgate drivers share duties with others on TGN?
 

Domh245

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First 717 is on test in Germany.

http://railcolornews.com/2018/03/13...17-for-great-northern-making-its-test-rounds/

As (I think) the only difference between the 717s and the 700s is the emergency doors, these shouldn't require too much testing?
The 707s were just 700s with a different colour scheme and a few less vehicles, and they didn't exactly have an easy introduction! It's also interesting to see that these will be just single units, as opposed to 2 half-units, seeing as they've only got one pantograph
 
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