GN Class 717

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by choochoochoo, 1 May 2017.

  1. choochoochoo

    choochoochoo Member

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    Apologies if this is posted in the wrong forum -Please feel to move/direct this question to the appropriate location

    Just curious as I can't find any recent news on the Class 717 that GN are getting.

    Is everything still on schedule as per GTR press releases ? Entry sometime this year ?

    Are any of the drivers being trained on these yet ? Or is it similar enough to 700s to warrant cross qualification ?
     
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  3. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Have any units actually been completed or delivered yet? I thought that production was following on from the Class 707s.
     
  4. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    They've recently produced a prototype front end. As of 29th March, the first unit was unbuilt, so I'd be surprised if there was one in service by December. When the order was finalised, the expected entry into service was 2018, which is more likely. Driver training won't have started yet, and I don't think that they are sufficiently similar to the 700s for it to be a cross qualification. The cab layout and undoubtedly a few other things will be different as a result of the different cab design.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. choochoochoo

    choochoochoo Member

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    Thanks for the info. Nice looking train - Can't wait to see it online.

    Anybody know how long before a train enters service the drivers begin training on it. I assume that they have a simulator ready long before an actual train is built.
     
  6. absolutelymilk

    absolutelymilk Established Member

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    Apart from the cab, what other things are likely to change compared to the 700s?
     
  7. goblinuser

    goblinuser Member

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    Will the cabs be walk through or is that just a safety exit in case of failure in a limited clearance section (like on tube stock and class 378s)?
     
  8. SprinterMan

    SprinterMan Established Member

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    None delivered yet. Current plan is first units in service May 2018, all units in service December 2018.

    No 1st class, no toilets, no yellow ends, limited to 30mph on 3rd rail. Apart from that, same as the 700s. :)

    Cab end doors are emergency exit only, just like 313s/319s/378s.

    Adam :)
     
    Last edited: 7 Jul 2017
  9. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    They're fixed 6 car units so nothing to walk through to. They won't be joining up to make 12 car units. In passenger service at least.
     
  10. absolutelymilk

    absolutelymilk Established Member

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    Which stations are too short for longer trains?
     
  11. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Many of them, including most importantly those between Drayton Park and Moorgate, can only hold 6 cars. The biggest limiting factor of all is the terminal platforms at Moorgate itself, extending this would be a very major piece of work, such that I don't think there have ever been plans for it.

    Most Hertford Loop stations can only take 6 cars, although I suspect most could probably be fairly easily extended.
     
  12. gazthomas

    gazthomas Established Member

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    The ones south of Finsbury Park - especially the tunnelled section!
     
  13. TheDavibob

    TheDavibob Member

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    Essentially all of them. All stations south of Finsbury Park (Drayton Park, Highbury & Islington, Essex Road, Old Street and Moorgate) are not much over 120m long, so a 717 will snugly fit. Given the latter four are in tunnels, this is as long as they can be. I don't think there are any plans to run these units to Kings Cross (though I imagine they'll turn up there from time to time).
     
  14. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    These trains are to go to Moorgate. Every platform on the Northern City line is six cars only. With no gangway, there's no way they're going to join up (besides for rescuing a stranded train perhaps) as nobody could get off the other set at ANY time!

    I assume there's no plans for these to be used for other purposes (like standing in for a 700 or 387) except in an emergency, as they probably need all the stock they're getting. If they get diverted due to problems on the NCL, that doesn't count.

    Plus at some stage (likely the next franchise) they'll likely be going to London Overground.

    So, I stick to my assumption that they'll always be six cars and that's it.
     
    Last edited: 21 Jul 2017
  15. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    There are or certainly have been a couple of 4x313 workings which come out from Hornsey to King's Cross in the early morning and then split into two pairs before going their separate ways. It's conceivable similar could still happen with the 717s coming out as a pair and then splitting, unless there's any technical reason against it (can't see why there would be).
     
    Last edited: 21 Jul 2017
  16. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Oh yes, for things like that they can and likely will join, but never in passenger service.

    I've heard of 16 car trains running, although never seen it, with trains on FCC or Wagn in years gone by (not sure what class).

    I assume a 12 car 700 can drag another, so that must be a sight to see? Imagine a future where you had 24 car trains in public service!
     
  17. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    I'm sure there's a link to a video of two T/L 12 cars way back in the main 700 thread, I think some sort of rescue trial; here it is thanks to Google: https://youtu.be/Gj-A7TBdNXM
     
    Last edited: 21 Jul 2017
  18. absolutelymilk

    absolutelymilk Established Member

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    Still no word on 717s being finished or tested? Are Siemens running behind?
     
  19. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Not aware of any testing on NR metals as yet. The 710s are about to begin, so I can't imagine the 717s will be far behind.
     
  20. dp21

    dp21 Member

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    Have they even started building them yet? Normally there's some evidence around by now if they had?
     
  21. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    This being Siemens, you would usually expect them to do initial testing at wildenrath, and you would expect press releases about the units making their way to the UK before any NR testing.

    I would expect them to be in production, intermediate cars if nothing else so that production can follow on from the 700s/707s
     
  22. Skimble19

    Skimble19 Established Member

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    Yes, they have started building them, the first unit should be ready for testing reasonably soon.

    I have to admit everyone has been a lot quieter than usual with these, but work is progressing. (Before anybody asks no I can’t provide any publicly accesible links at present).
     
  23. dp21

    dp21 Member

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    Ah brill, thanks :)
     
  24. SprinterMan

    SprinterMan Established Member

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    Latest mutterings are that the first Class 717s will arrive in the last week of August, with the first one in service by the end of September. :)
     
    Last edited: 20 Jan 2018
  25. Agent_Squash

    Agent_Squash Member

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    Guessing there will be no need for anything else other than running in due to familiarity with the 700s?
     
  26. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    There will be some kind of conversion necessary, with the cab redesign and obviously the emergency procedure. Do the Moorgate drivers share duties with others on TGN?
     
  27. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    Found myself looking at Schoenemann design's website earlier and found their page about the 717s. Here are some better photos of their front end mockup to whet the appetite:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'm assuming that those smaller inboard lights are evacuation lights?
     
  28. hedpe

    hedpe Member

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    Yes, they switch on when one of the green handles for the emergency exit is pulled.
     
  29. Jack Timbrell

    Jack Timbrell New Member

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    I noticed that the last 700 has come off the production line. Are the 717s about to go into production?
     
  30. absolutelymilk

    absolutelymilk Established Member

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  31. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    The 707s were just 700s with a different colour scheme and a few less vehicles, and they didn't exactly have an easy introduction! It's also interesting to see that these will be just single units, as opposed to 2 half-units, seeing as they've only got one pantograph
     

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