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GN Class 717

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Skimpot flyer

Skimpot flyer

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Team Defect said:
Not sure if anyone has already posted, but we have been informed that the 717s are now not due to start entering service until after Christmas.

The train that failed on the up NCL the other night suffered a failure of the main Ethernet train back bone (main data comes line). This system should switch over to the redundant system automatically in the even of a fault. It failed to do so!! Siemens are currently investigating the cause. This train had to be pulled out of the NCL by another 717. This issue is not the reason that the 717s are delayed until after Christmas. I believe this is due to driver issues, not sure what exactly.
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Does this mean that the 4-trains per hour from WGC-Moorgate from next week will get binned? Do they have enough 313s to run this frequency of service? If so, will it only be achieved by operating some diagrams as single units (3 cars) ??
 
bramling

bramling

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Skimpot flyer said:
Does this mean that the 4-trains per hour from WGC-Moorgate from next week will get binned? Do they have enough 313s to run this frequency of service? If so, will it only be achieved by operating some diagrams as single units (3 cars) ??
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They should have enough 313s as the May timetable was supposed to run that level of service, with just one single-unit diagram booked. This assumes the whole 313 fleet remains available of course, more than a couple of units unavailable and short forms would be required.
 
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clockend

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Peak requirement is higher than off peak 4tph so shouldn’t be a problem from a unit pov. And as previous posters have said we had 4tph in May.
 
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Fred26

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Skimpot flyer said:
<turns on Panto mode>
Oh no, we didn’t!!!
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Yes, we did. When the May timetable came in it worked on the inners for a few weeks. However, GTR realised that they could move some drivers from inner diagrams onto outer diagrams and thus try to stabilise the outer service (to the detriment of the inners). That happened in June, but it didn't have much effect.
When July rolled around it didn't matter anyway because many trains were removed, which are planned to be put back from next week.
 
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jon0844

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The 717s are now starting next year due to the above mentioned driver training issue, but there will be sufficient units to run 4tph and I think it is probably better to concentrate on one thing at a time.

New timetable next week and new trains from some time in January.
 
Class315

Class315

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jon0844 said:
The 717s are now starting next year due to the above mentioned driver training issue, but there will be sufficient units to run 4tph and I think it is probably better to concentrate on one thing at a time.

New timetable next week and new trains from some time in January.
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Primarily, I believe the issue lays with those drivers who’ve recently signed the 717’s needing to practise stopping on the Northern City Line with the SDO in full effect, as the infrastructure has recently been installed and was unable to be carried first time round because of the lack of infrastructure.
 
Felix A

Felix A

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jon0844 said:
It wouldn't be right to run a 313 like that. All stations to York please!
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This is your 0832 Great Northern service calling at: Old Street, Essex Road, Highbury & Islington, Drayton Park, Finsbury Park, Harringay, Hornsey, Alexandra Palace, Bowes Park, Palmers Green, Winchmore Hill, Grange Park, Enfield Chase, Gordon Hill, Crews Hill, Cuffley, Bayford, Hertford North, Watton-at-Stone, Stevenage, Hitchin, Arlesey, Biggleswade, Sandy, St Neots, Huntingdon, Peterborough, Grantham, Newark North Gate, Retford, Doncaster and York. This train is formed of 3 carriages.
 
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jon0844

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Felix A said:
This is your 0832 Great Northern service calling at: Old Street, Essex Road, Highbury & Islington, Drayton Park, Finsbury Park, Harringay, Hornsey, Alexandra Palace, Bowes Park, Palmers Green, Winchmore Hill, Grange Park, Enfield Chase, Gordon Hill, Crews Hill, Cuffley, Bayford, Hertford North, Watton-at-Stone, Stevenage, Hitchin, Arlesey, Biggleswade, Sandy, St Neots, Huntingdon, Peterborough, Grantham, Newark North Gate, Retford, Doncaster and York. This train is formed of 3 carriages.
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With one motor out.. .
 
hooverboy

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John Clausen said:
What does that mean? If the TOC has an existing agreement, can they put the price up during the term of the lease? Or are they all on short term leases now because the 717s have arrived later than planned?
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straight answer is no for a present lease...the price is already contractually agreed.

for an emergency lease the ROSCO's can basically charge what they like,because of lack of supply of useable stock....assuming that is, the TOC has not double booked with the same ROSCO for replacment stock.

that being the case, any good negotiator should have made damn sure there were penalty clauses in the contract for ROSCO not being able to supply the required stock ,in the required state of servicable use,by the required date.

if it is down to training schedules etc and manpower, then that liability lies with the train operator and they pay the penalty.
 
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jon0844

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With rumours that some of the 313s may be going to someone else, I wonder if that's really true or a clever bluff on the part of the ROSCO to justify the higher fee because they're 'losing money'. Much harder to do if they were almost all destined for scrap.
 
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700007

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jon0844 said:
With rumours that some of the 313s may be going to someone else, I wonder if that's really true or a clever bluff on the part of the ROSCO to justify the higher fee because they're 'losing money'. Much harder to do if they were almost all destined for scrap.
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I can only think of Southern for the trains to go to as top ups but they're the same TOC, don't know why the ROSCO would try play mime's folly to give two different rates to the same customer?
 
ijmad

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K.o.R

K.o.R

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SteveOfTheStow said:
No problem. To clarify some more, they're being dragged through the tunnel by loco, not running under their own power, if that's where your source of disbelief was :)
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Probably the only other EMU that went into the tunnel under its own power was a 319.
 
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