GN Class 717

[jon0844]

I posted the original December 2018 diagrams on here some time ago. As you say, they've not been running as yet and it makes sense that they're amended each week until such time that they are good to go.

I notice Hatfield has had its lighting upgraded from already bright white lights to LED lighting. I assume every station will get this modification in due course to improve visibility.

 

[daniel1234321]

https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/717trains has been updated; same preview services (1037 and 1437) but date now listed as 'From Monday 4 Februrary'. So no change this week.

I wonder if they'll just keep changing the date on the site every week until they start running on regular diagrams.

 

[daniel1234321]

When will these train get regular weekend diagrams?

I think late february, first units into regular service are expected in mid feb, when there's less strain on Hornsey due the Brighton Main Line being closed.

 

[petersi]

The introduction of the class 717 trains from a passengers perspective seams to sum up what is wrong with the rail industry
Network rail and the TOC not working together. It should have been possible to identify and solve The non NCL station issues by now. The fact we are still waiting for for balises for SDO is very poor.
The rail unions playing politics with accepting of new Dispatch practices I accept that it difficult but if one union is happy ...
Poor communication from the TOC. They are still claim a February instruction on this page would be much better to be honest that they still working on working practices for Essex Road and old street and infrastructure for certain other stations.

Lets be Honest until There are safe working practices for dispatch you can not get Union agreement for their operation. Once you got safe working practices you can hope the rail unions might allow their introduction.

But overall from a passengers perspective it look as though the parties are not working together and lack of real communication. Putting on a web page that they will be introduced in February when so many factors out side their control have not been sorted is ....

 

[jon0844]

The signalling wasn't moved, presumably because SDO was considered a cheap alternative. Then as the training and testing has been carried out there have been further concerns raised. Only a week or so ago a 717 stop board was torn down because of an issue.

There are probably loads of factors. The TOC, Network Rail and its contractors positioning the boards correctly, drivers, unions and so on. It all has to be done right but it is clearly frustrating as I want the increasingly unreliable 313s gone. One broke down today and caused problems and it will only get worse.

 

[petersi]

The signalling wasn't moved, presumably because SDO was considered a cheap alternative. Then as the training and testing has been carried out there have been further concerns raised. Only a week or so ago a 717 stop board was torn down because of an issue.

The NCL problems I understand and that making changes to old systems is problematic. But outside that by now one wold hope problems at other stations should be sorted. I in many ways as a passenger , I do not care what the solution is SDO or moving a signal rather that issues are identified in a timely manor and solution implementation is also timely

 

[Fred26]

The NCL problems I understand and that making changes to old systems is problematic. But outside that by now one wold hope problems at other stations should be sorted. I in many ways as a passenger , I do not care what the solution is SDO or moving a signal rather that issues are identified in a timely manor and solution implementation is also timely

What are the problems outside the NCL?

 

[petersi]

Some people on this forum have reported that some stations require SDO but this has not been implemented

 

[332 > 444]

Expect to see more later in February - the 313s have to go, Hornsey are struggling to keep them together. There were at least 2 sitting dead in the yard and no parts available, possibly down to one now.


There's also some additional lighting required on a few stations north of FPK but that is more easily remedied. There may be SDO at certain platforms overground as well, can't remember which but solutions were still being looked at. Either way balises will need fitting/updating and then testing before passenger service starts.

Brookman's Park being on of them but unsure if it's both directions as I definitely know it's SDO5 on the up. Don't recall any on the Hertford loop.

 

[Fred26]

Some people on this forum have reported that some stations require SDO but this has not been implemented

Thanks, I didn't know that. I thought it was just Old Street, Essex Road, and Highbury & Islington.

 

[Failed Unit]

Thanks, I didn't know that. I thought it was just Old Street, Essex Road, and Highbury & Islington.

Just going through the WGC line. Most stations are 8 car except Brookmans Park and Welham Green. Can’t see a problem with either. But will pay more attention to where the signals are.

I know slightly off topic but I notice all 8 car doors open now at New Barnet. So an example of where the new stock has helped.

 

[jon0844]

Brookman's Park being on of them but unsure if it's both directions as I definitely know it's SDO5 on the up. Don't recall any on the Hertford loop.

If there's one station they don't want to mess up, it's Brookmans Park given who lives there!

 

[Failed Unit]

If there's one station they don't want to mess up, it's Brookmans Park given who lives there!

He normally uses WGC for some reason.

 

[jon0844]

He normally uses WGC for some reason.

He does? Then why is he not wanting more fast services?!

 

[Failed Unit]

He does? Then why is he not wanting more fast services?!

He is. He wants the non-stop services restored.

https://www.shapps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Missing-Trains.pdf

· Waiting times at stopping stations have increased ‡ resulted in longer journey times. Govia have responded that waiting times have been increased:
o “to help accommodate new services going into St Pancras”‡NO trains go from St Pancras to WGC.
o Toallowfor“additionalpassengerstoboard”‡thenewclass700trains have wider doors and less seating per carriage. Has not been promised that new trains will be 12 coaches rather than 8 or 4. Excuse makes no sense.
· Choice for Welwyn North commuters to extend their tickets to Knebworth has been removed.
· Brookmans Park and Welham Green have reduced from three trains per hour to London, to two.
· No direct service between WGC and Finsbury Park – peak-time direct services have been removed.
· Brookmans Park have 44 minutes between departures to London during off- peak hours.
· Hatfield to London used to be 22 minutes. This has increased to by 7 minutes to 29 minutes.
· Slow trains from Welwyn North to London are now 40 minutes. An increase of 10 minutes from a previous 30 minutes.

This was produced before December. Some issues are fixed now.

 

[332 > 444]

If there's one station they don't want to mess up, it's Brookmans Park given who lives there!

No idea who lives there but I don't wait or re-release!

He normally uses WGC for some reason.

I thought Welwyn North is the better connected station, especially for the fast 365 peak journeys, I've not been north of WGC since November!

 

[petersi]

The signalling wasn't moved, presumably because SDO was considered a cheap alternative. Then as the training and testing has been carried out there have been further concerns raised. Only a week or so ago a 717 stop board was torn down because of an issue.
.

Each time this happens the Drivers Need retraining so its another 4 week delay on the them entering service.
So the earliest entry into service will be 4 week from the time SDO is implemented at Brookmans Park.

That is assuming they can sort out NCL
Get Union agreement
Get ORR approval and no General election etc(ORR will not make any public announcements once a election is announced).

 

[choochoochoo]

The signalling wasn't moved, presumably because SDO was considered a cheap alternative. Then as the training and testing has been carried out there have been further concerns raised. Only a week or so ago a 717 stop board was torn down because of an issue.

What station was the stop board torn down from ?

 

[jon0844]

What station was the stop board torn down from ?

Highbury and Islington I believe.

 

[gm671]

Deleted

 

[daniel1234321]

Some people on this forum have reported that some stations require SDO but this has not been implemented

It has been implemented now on the NCL. I travelled on a preview service and the PIS did say to move towards the front to alight as the last set of doors did not open.

 

[petersi]

Apparently Brookmans Park also needs SDO and this may not of been implemented looking at post 1370

 

[SeaKing]

Anyone know where 717024 is, TIA.

 

[Class315]

As

Anyone know where 717024 is, TIA.

As of 14:00 this afternoon it was stabled on the Country End of 5 Road within Hornsey Depot.

 

[Failed Unit]

Apparently Brookmans Park also needs SDO and this may not of been implemented looking at post 1370

I saw an SDO 5 board on the northbound platform today. I wonder why this has taken so long to discover as this section of line isn’t due for resignalling yet.

Drivers complaining in test runs?

 

[BowesRanger]

More delays this morning because of an earlier breakdown. Anyone know what happened .. Getting more and more regular now

 

[Failed Unit]

More delays this morning because of an earlier breakdown. Anyone know what happened .. Getting more and more regular now

Take your pick of overhead line damage on the loop or a broken down train (not a class 700 for a change)

I suspect the 313 on platform 1 at Finsbury Park is the sinner. So far this week I am delayed by 2x failed 700s and 1x 313.

 

[notverydeep]

Take your pick of overhead line damage on the loop or a broken down train (not a class 700 for a change)

I suspect the 313 on platform 1 at Finsbury Park is the sinner. So far this week I am delayed by 2x failed 700s and 1x 313.

The failure appears to have been either 2J21 0702 Hertford North to Moorgate http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G13146/2019/02/07/advanced or 2J23 0705 Watton-at-Stone to Moorgate http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G13155/2019/02/07/advanced. Real Time Trains has the latter terminated at Alexandra Palace due to a traction fault. One or other of these appears to have moved on to King's Cross having been held in Finsbury Park platform 1 for a time, by this time as 5G26 - the next working of one of the above trains would have been 2G26 0810 Moorgate to Gordon Hill which was cancelled.

Inevitably this resulted in lots of short / no notice platform alterations and congestion as hundreds of people tried to get across to Thameslink core bound trains on platform 4. Fortunately for me, that included the onward driver for 9S13 0754 Cambridge - Brighton! 9S13 was given skip stops between Haywards Heath and Brighton despite being only 9 minutes late.

There was also an oddity whereby 2C13 0727 Cambridge - King's Cross more or less caught up the 2C11 the previous train from Cambridge (0648 from Cambridge North) at Finsbury Park and managed to overtake the 2Y15 0802 WGC - King's Cross...

 

[Class315]

The failure appears to have been either 2J21 0702 Hertford North to Moorgate http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G13146/2019/02/07/advanced or 2J23 0705 Watton-at-Stone to Moorgate http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G13155/2019/02/07/advanced. Real Time Trains has the latter terminated at Alexandra Palace due to a traction fault. One or other of these appears to have moved on to King's Cross having been held in Finsbury Park platform 1 for a time, by this time as 5G26 - the next working of one of the above trains would have been 2G26 0810 Moorgate to Gordon Hill which was cancelled.

Inevitably this resulted in lots of short / no notice platform alterations and congestion as hundreds of people tried to get across to Thameslink core bound trains on platform 4. Fortunately for me, that included the onward driver for 9S13 0754 Cambridge - Brighton! 9S13 was given skip stops between Haywards Heath and Brighton despite being only 9 minutes late.

There was also an oddity whereby 2C13 0727 Cambridge - King's Cross more or less caught up the 2C11 the previous train from Cambridge (0648 from Cambridge North) at Finsbury Park and managed to overtake the 2Y15 0802 WGC - King's Cross...

2J21 sat down at Gordon Hill on the up for 25 minutes this morning with a unit fault. 2J23 which was stuck behind it also encountered a fault with the safety systems in the cab and was terminated at Alexandra Palace and ran into Hornsey.

It appears that more retesting needs to be carried out as all offside 6 car platforms will require SDO5. Testing is still required for Welwyn and Lecthworth Yards. Perhaps March for introduction?!

 

[Failed Unit]

2J21 sat down at Gordon Hill on the up for 25 minutes this morning with a unit fault. 2J23 which was stuck behind it also encountered a fault with the safety systems in the cab and was terminated at Alexandra Palace and ran into Hornsey.

It appears that more retesting needs to be carried out as all offside 6 car platforms will require SDO5. Testing is still required for Welwyn and Lecthworth Yards. Perhaps March for introduction?!

Forgive my ignorance put what do you class as off-side?

Welham Green type stations or Brookmans park type stations?