GN Class 717

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Aictos

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With the 717s, are any outstabled in the off peak on a weekday?

If there are then where and how many?
 
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TRAX

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Has anyone else noticed the aircon kicking in/out when changing to/from ac/dc ?

Even in the cab, I've heard it changing after leaving/arriving at drayton park.
Well yes, the AC turns off when you change power supply because there’s a slight moment during that changeover during which the train switches to battery power.
 

transmanche

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Is it possibly switching to recirculating for the tunnels and fresh for the open air.
Interesting thought.

What does the aircon on the 707s 700s do when they switchover between AC and DC? If they do the same, then it could simply be down to less power being available when operating on DC compared to AC. But if they don't do the same, then changing to recirculating for the tunnels sounds very reasonable.
 
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TRAX

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Interesting thought.

What does the aircon on the 707s do when they switchover between AC and DC? If they do the same, then it could simply be down to less power being available when operating on DC compared to AC. But if they don't do the same, then changing to recirculating for the tunnels sounds very reasonable.
The 707s only operate on DC.
 

choochoochoo

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Is it possibly switching to recirculating for the tunnels and fresh for the open air.
That's probably it, although it sounds too forward thinking for Siemens !!

Why program change from fresh air to recirc for the NCL but not limit the power/speed to ensure 30mph is not exceeded ? (even the 313s were restricted on DC)
 

aleggatta

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Typically, with regards to air con, they run in cycles, and when the power is removed mid cycle a period of time has to pass before the compressor can restart so the gasses are in the right place, I would take a guess that that is what is occurring here, and any fan speed is cycled up after a period of time, making it seem like there is reduced performance initially, but with the unit returning to standard operation after a period of time.
 

transmanche

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Interesting thought.

What does the aircon on the 707s do when they switchover between AC and DC? If they do the same, then it could simply be down to less power being available when operating on DC compared to AC. But if they don't do the same, then changing to recirculating for the tunnels sounds very reasonable.
The 707s only operate on DC.
Oops, I got my classes mixed up. I meant the 700s.

(I'll fix the original post.)
 

Bikeman78

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With the 717s, are any outstabled in the off peak on a weekday?

If there are then where and how many?
Yes three of them park up during the off peak on weekdays. Have a look at RTT, they are easy to spot. They run empty from Moorgate to Hornsey as 5Exx. In the afternoon they come off Hornsey and form passenger trains from Finsbury Park to Moorgate.
 

bramling

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What is at Welwyn? Just 700s? (I know they are there, just not paid enough attention to if anything is. You will see 717s shunting in, but I suspect that is to clear the platform.)
During the week, just 3x717 stable during the midday period, all at Hornsey. On top of this 1x700/0 stables at Welwyn and 2x700/0 at Hornsey. Nothing at Hertford or Letchworth.

This is a far cry from three years ago when there was extensive midday stabling at all these locations - the reduction in such stabling is no doubt a result of running full-length trains right through the day.
 

Failed Unit

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During the week, just 3x717 stable during the midday period, all at Hornsey. On top of this 1x700/0 stables at Welwyn and 2x700/0 at Hornsey. Nothing at Hertford or Letchworth.

This is a far cry from three years ago when there was extensive midday stabling at all these locations - the reduction in such stabling is no doubt a result of running full-length trains right through the day.
You often see 717s at Welwyn Garden City, but these can be explained by failures, crew shortages etc. When I walk past at lunchtime you often see them there. Which made me wonder if they should be their or not. MTIN on these (and the 700s) is still absolutely pathetic. They still not even close to a poorly maintained 313
 

jon0844

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You often see 717s at Welwyn Garden City, but these can be explained by failures, crew shortages etc. When I walk past at lunchtime you often see them there. Which made me wonder if they should be their or not. MTIN on these (and the 700s) is still absolutely pathetic. They still not even close to a poorly maintained 313
I heard the 700s have improved massively in the last few periods, but I can't see the data anywhere. Can you post the MTIN figures for the 700s and 717s please?
 

Failed Unit

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I heard the 700s have improved massively in the last few periods, but I can't see the data anywhere. Can you post the MTIN figures for the 700s and 717s please?
Will post on Monday, once I get the new Modern Railways magazine. The e-preview states.

"This month sees the return of the Great Northern 717 fleet after its mysterious disappearence from the data. Envious rivals sometimes attribute the success of a fleet in the spanners awards to a less ardous duty cycle. The Class 717s bieng all stations "stoppers", could be reflected in thier lower reliability than the class 700 outer-suburban fleet"
Last month the 313 was around 14k MTIN, (3rd place with only the 707 and the 800 above it). The 700 was at 11k MTIN.

I know I will get the normal nonsense that the 717 isn't treated fairly as it a 6 coach train, I don't care - the fact is that now the 717s are in full service my chances are higher than if it was a 313 (even if it a short formed one).

I suspect GTR refused to publish the 717s MTIN will the 313s were still out to avoid such a comparison, as people realise thier new trains are less relaible than the old ones. Yes I know they have more to go wrong on the new trains, they will get better and probably exceed the 313s one day. But at the moment they are a touch embarrasing to Siemens.
 

jon0844

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Saturday had zero 717 cancellations I believe. Fewer trains running of course.

94% on time today with 2% very late or cancelled.

Dropping below zero tonight so I wonder what tomorrow will be like?

As far as I can see, it's the inners (717s) bringing up the average for GTR as a whole.
 

Failed Unit

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Saturday had zero 717 cancellations I believe. Fewer trains running of course.

94% on time today with 2% very late or cancelled.

Dropping below zero tonight so I wonder what tomorrow will be like?

As far as I can see, it's the inners (717s) bringing up the average for GTR as a whole.
this is true, has being since May 2018 when the 313s were in sole charge.

Remember the 700s are not that great either and more of my cancellations are down to staff shortages over equipment failure in past quarter.

they seem to have got better at staffing the service. (Hope it stays that way in December as drivers take some well earned time with their families on the run up to Christmas) - December weekends always were bad for volunteers.
 

jon0844

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this is true, has being since May 2018 when the 313s were in sole charge.

Remember the 700s are not that great either and more of my cancellations are down to staff shortages over equipment failure in past quarter.

they seem to have got better at staffing the service. (Hope it stays that way in December as drivers take some well earned time with their families on the run up to Christmas) - December weekends always were bad for volunteers.
I am not looking forward to Christmas with regards to train crew issues, but if we're talking about reliability then I don't think this should be in any way linked to the claim that 700s and 717s are unreliable.

I don't know the figures (and I look forward to finding out what they are), but a driver told me that they've been performing well for a few months and I have to say that I am using more 717s now, despite the slower speed, rather than wait for a faster train (even with the ability to sit in 'first class').

The trains.im data seems to confirm the service is performing well.
 

Failed Unit

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Be interesting if the August incident is included. Saying that they do month and annual.

i also tend to not change at Finsbury Park anymore. You don’t gain anything now. In the past you may have passed a slow train but now you can’t. (Both on slow lines). Same seats etc.

but I have not yet seen the class 313 below 14k or the 700 (or 717) above 12k.
 

jon0844

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Was that the power outage that killed loads of trains with the newer software? I assume they rolled the software back or fixed the issue (allowing drivers to attempt a reboot).

Surely they have to include that in the stats? It was technically a train fault, even if the train did do what it was supposed to do. It is just that afterwards, the train shouldn't have just given up and decided to die.
 

Failed Unit

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GTR. Class 700. MTIN period 6. 14565 Av 13384
GTR. Class 717. MTIN period 6. 9567 Av 9567.

the 700 is getting close to a poorly maintained 313. The 717 still about ⅓ behind.

If you look at some of the others. Both are respectable. Don’t ask about the 230.
 

Bald Rick

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GTR. Class 700. MTIN period 6. 14565 Av 13384
GTR. Class 717. MTIN period 6. 9567 Av 9567.

the 700 is getting close to a poorly maintained 313. The 717 still about ⅓ behind.

If you look at some of the others. Both are respectable. Don’t ask about the 230.
The 230 presumably has a ‘TINM’ figure rather than MTIN.
 

jon0844

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GTR. Class 700. MTIN period 6. 14565 Av 13384
GTR. Class 717. MTIN period 6. 9567 Av 9567.

the 700 is getting close to a poorly maintained 313. The 717 still about ⅓ behind.

If you look at some of the others. Both are respectable. Don’t ask about the 230.
A 717 had a fault before 6am yesterday so I guess I tempted fate!
 

jellybaby

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I might be imagining it but I think the 717s are more consistently warm inside compared to the 313s which is appreciated in this weather. Certainly a lot drier with no condensation on the windows.
 

Failed Unit

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A 717 had a fault before 6am yesterday so I guess I tempted fate!
So many problems yesterday it was hard to know why any particular service was delays. I think we had.

1. failed 717 early morning
2. Failed freight train on loop.
3. Animals on line in Cambridge branch.
4. Multiple failed 700s in core.

service felt very 2018 yesterday. But not had a day that bad for a long time.
 
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