GN Class 717

[Goldfish62]

The needs of the travelling public have changed in 40 years. Yes, commuters would sacrifice a toilet for a short trip, but what about the other passengers who would like to use the service at other times ? Not all passengers are blessed with massive bladders and well-behaved bowels.

Not to mention that with walk-through carriages there's going to be less places discrete urination.

Indeed, and with the population get older there's probably a greater need for toilets than ever.

It seems strange that everyone on the train has to do without a toilet just so a handful of extra people can be squeezed on on those few trips where the space that would have been taken up by a toilet or two is needed for passengers.

 

[jopsuk]

Do we have to go through this arguement every time someone procures a new metro fleet?

 

[choochoochoo]

Do we have to go through this arguement every time someone procures a new metro fleet?

Ok, so don't put a toilet on board. But then make toilets available at each station.

And why take it out when the 717 is essentially a modified 700 that did have one ? I would've thought commonality in carriages would reduce operating/maintenance costs.

I look forward to trains being taken out of service because of bodily fluid in passenger carriages. You can't even lock out affected carriages on a 717.

 

[jopsuk]

Nothing is being taken out. The 717s are a different train to the 700s, running services more akin to London Underground S-Stock. How frequent are soiling incidents on the class 313s?

The 717 is not a "modified 700". It is a Desiro City, like the 700, but ordered with a different specification appropriate to the line they are to be used on.

 

[APUK002]

Ok, so don't put a toilet on board. But then make toilets available at each station.

And why take it out when the 717 is essentially a modified 700 that did have one ? I would've thought commonality in carriages would reduce operating/maintenance costs.

I look forward to trains being taken out of service because of bodily fluid in passenger carriages. You can't even lock out affected carriages on a 717.

Can’t close off carriages? I thought there is a deyployable door thing,aswell as locking the releavant external doors via tms/key so they don’t open on door release?

 

[bramling]

The needs of the travelling public have changed in 40 years. Yes, commuters would sacrifice a toilet for a short trip, but what about the other passengers who would like to use the service at other times ? Not all passengers are blessed with massive bladders and well-behaved bowels.

Not to mention that with walk-through carriages there's going to be less places discrete urination.

The Hertford services get extremely busy during the peaks, and not just the peaks but the peak shoulders. Personally I'd rather have the extra capacity.

Also note that these units won't be operating services quite as long as today -- from May they won't be going north of Stevenage, apart from ECS from/to Letchworth sidings.

 

[Domh245]

Can’t close off carriages? I thought there is a deyployable door thing,aswell as locking the releavant external doors via tms/key so they don’t open on door release?

There don't tend to be many mid train doors - there certainly isn't one between each and every vehicle. And it's all well and good being able to disable external doors from releasing, but no good if people can just walk into the 'closed' vehicle through the gangways!

 

[choochoochoo]

deleted

 

[choochoochoo]

Can’t close off carriages? I thought there is a deyployable door thing,aswell as locking the releavant external doors via tms/key so they don’t open on door release?

The first class compartments on 700s can be locked out. Not sure if 717 will have first class. If more space on metro stock in lieu of a toilet is needed then I doubt it will.

There are screen doors in carriages at each end, but depending on what section needs blocking off it could severely restrict capacity.

 

[Hadders]

No 1st class on the 717s. There isn't on the 313s they replace either.

The routes the 717s will operate over are proper inner-suburban - think Metropolitan line but not quite as far.

 

[goblinuser]

The needs of the travelling public have changed in 40 years.

Yes, us people of the 21st century are no longer subjected to emptying our bladders, times have changed!

 

[rebmcr]

Yes, commuters would sacrifice a toilet for a short trip, but what about the other passengers who would like to use the service at other times ? Not all passengers are blessed with massive bladders and well-behaved bowels.

The off-peak passengers are enjoying a service as a side-benefit that would not even exist if not for the commuters' needs. Not too long ago, this line in particular did not operate at all on weekends!

 

[NSEFAN]

The off-peak passengers are enjoying a service as a side-benefit that would not even exist if not for the commuters' needs. Not too long ago, this line in particular did not operate at all on weekends!

I'm pretty sure that off-peak trains have always run up to Welwyn GC and to Stevenage via Hertford. Those sections are somewhat longer than the section down the Northern City line to Moorgate and arguably in greater need of on-board toilets.

Nevertheless I agree with other posters that toilets will not be fitted, given the need to cram in as many passengers as possible.

 

[Domh245]

There's a few journos (and 717s) at Wildenrath today:

And now in time honoured forum tradition, it's time for the thread to devolve into pages upon pages of seat complaints.

 

[HSTEd]

And now in time honoured forum tradition, it's time for the thread to devolve into pages upon pages of seat complaints.

That plastic covering is not going to be very comfortable!

 

[Domh245]

That plastic covering is not going to be very comfortable!

Extra cushioning is extra cushioning!

 

[urpert]

No tables, I notice (sorry)

 

[jellybaby]

pages upon pages of seat complaints.

Okay then... The switch from 3+2 to 2+2 means I'll never get a seat in the morning peak again. Grumble grumble.

Siemens have a press release at http://www.siemens.co.uk/en/news_pr...thern-fleet-moves-closer-as-siemens-tests.htm

Video of the proboscis unfolding at https://twitter.com/ellen_schramke/status/991649042546544640

 

[Kite159]

No tables, I notice (sorry)

Although in all fairness the 717s are replacing the 313s which also don't have tables.

I'm guessing these units will be like the 707s in lacking toilets?

 

[Domh245]

I'm guessing these units will be like the 707s in lacking toilets?

Correct, as discussed earlier in the thread

 

[jon0844]

I thought they were getting tables. Maybe they'll be retrofitted (they're bolted on to existing seats aren't they?).

 

[class387]

It is probably just the way the plastic is put on, but could this photo from Modern Railway's Twitter suggest 'Scotrail-style' ironing boards with more bolstering?



Original Picture from: https://twitter.com/Modern_Railways/status/991604330259189761

 

[ijmad]

They're so.... grey....

 

[Tubeboy]

Are the cab windows the same as the 385s? They look it to my post night shift untrained eyes.

 

[LewisT]

Are the cab windows the same as the 385s? They look it to my post night shift untrained eyes.

To me, the windows are nowhere near as angled, and these are manufactured by Siemens, not Hitachi like the 385s are.

 

[Tubeboy]

Yes. Like I said post night shift fatigue.

 

[gazr]

I like the way the sidings go over a footpath into a wall... Health and safety must be a bit different over there!

 

[jon0844]

To me, the windows are nowhere near as angled, and these are manufactured by Siemens, not Hitachi like the 385s are.

I assume someone has checked you don't see signals two or three times?!

 

[gazthomas]

Okay then... The switch from 3+2 to 2+2 means I'll never get a seat in the morning peak again. Grumble grumble.

Siemens have a press release at http://www.siemens.co.uk/en/news_pr...thern-fleet-moves-closer-as-siemens-tests.htm

Video of the proboscis unfolding at https://twitter.com/ellen_schramke/status/991649042546544640

But so much room to stand! At Finsbury Park I've squeezed myself in on so many occasions I'm surprised I survived. I've almost fainted before but you'd never know as there was never any space to collapse!

 

[Failed Unit]

But so much room to stand! At Finsbury Park I've squeezed myself in on so many occasions I'm surprised I surprised. I've almost fainted before but you'd never know as there was never any space to collapse!

Yes 2+2 will be very welcome on this route, the loss of the 2 middle cabs will be as well. I suspect the actual number of seats will not be that large when you consider how much room the cabs take up on the 313s.

As for the tables, never really had them on this route, not even the pearch the 317s had. I am sure seatback tables would be welcome, another contract variation and large cost rather than getting it right first time?