GN Class 717

[Failed Unit]

I found the train broadly the same as the 700 in terms of ride. We know the seats are hard, but kinda got over it. A massive improvement over the 313s once more are rolled out.

We will have to agree to disagree

It is a pity the lessons from the poor environment on 700 were not learnt and improved. .

 

[OwenB]

We will have to agree to disagree

It is a pity the lessons from the poor environment on 700 were not learnt and improved. .

Oh don't get me wrong, the lay out of the seats and the lack of legroom are still absolutely laughable.

 

[Bikeman78]

I don't think so. The 'ironing boards' are perfectly comfortable to me and the 313 doesn't exactly have deep sprung seats either. I think it's the suspension itself that's harder.

It isn't too bad (better than a 387), but also sort of disappointing that it doesn't match a 313 for ride quality.

The PEP units all ride pretty well. Much better than 455s, to use one example.

 

[Glen M]

717006 at Finsbury Park just now, 20 ish late and absolutely rammed.

 

[387star]

717 and chocolates the soundtrack to finsbury park

 

[387star]

Oh don't get me wrong, the lay out of the seats and the lack of legroom are still absolutely laughable.

Least these are only metro units ....and have plugs
Air con will be welcome

 

[Failed Unit]

1800 Moorgate - WGC more civilised but losing time. At Finsbury Park but no idea why.

The audio announcements work, but the CIS is blank.

717006 performance today shows how fragile GN is unable to recover from a 10 minute delay with many skip stops during the day. 717005 (which I am on) has done fine today.

You can certainly see why they are taking things slowly. Not sure what caused the delay to the 1800. But if it was lack of familiarity then best ramp up slowly.

Doesn’t seem to have as many extras on it compared to this morning. That is considering it left Finsbury Park so late passengers for the 1815 may also be onboard.

 

[class387]

The PEP units all ride pretty well. Much better than 455s, to use one example.

The 717s are worse in my opinion than all BR units, and Desiro Classics too. 313s and 455s can sway a lot at speed, but the 717 has a harsh jolt rather than a gentler sway.

One other thing to note: The 717s have different door sounders to the 700s, having the louder type as installed on 345s.

 

[Glen M]

1800 Moorgate - WGC more civilised but losing time. At Finsbury Park but no idea why.

The audio announcements work, but the CIS is blank.

717006 performance today shows how fragile GN is unable to recover from a 10 minute delay with many skip stops during the day. 717005 (which I am on) has done fine today.

You can certainly see why they are taking things slowly. Not sure what caused the delay to the 1800. But if it was lack of familiarity then best ramp up slowly.

Doesn’t seem to have as many extras on it compared to this morning. That is considering it left Finsbury Park so late passengers for the 1815 may also be onboard.

My guess would be just the amount of trains stacking up as a result of 717006 running so late, by the time I got to FPK everything was sliding behind.

 

[Failed Unit]

My guess would be just the amount of trains stacking up as a result of 717006 running so late, by the time I got to FPK everything was sliding behind.

Probably. I was going to bail out and get the 1821 instead. Glad I didn’t. It is stuck behind me.

Seems to be quicker start / stop then the 313 but not really recovering much. Stopped further back at Brookmans Park but I am in coach 1 so don’t know if SDO was used.

Other than that can’t really tell that you are not on a 700.

 

[Downthelane]

Chocolate at HAT this evening.

 

[mongoose]

Probably. I was going to bail out and get the 1821 instead. Glad I didn’t. It is stuck behind me.

Seems to be quicker start / stop then the 313 but not really recovering much. Stopped further back at Brookmans Park but I am in coach 1 so don’t know if SDO was used.

Other than that can’t really tell that you are not on a 700.

Also in Coach 1 of the 1800 this evening. Acceleration was good but just as we reached top speed had to start braking for the next stop. Better when the stations spread out further north, but as you say didn't recover much time if any.

 

[OxtedL]

Looks like one of them has failed on 2G40 (1855 to Gordon Hill) at Moorgate

 

[Failed Unit]

Chocolate at HAT this evening.

My belly is safe. Nothing at Moorgate or WGC.

 

[717001]

For 2G40 RTT is currently showing: "This service was cancelled throughout due to an issue with the train crew (TG)."
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G14558/2019/03/25/advanced
but this might get amended later. Looks to be running now - empty to Hornsey 42 minutes late as 5E40.

 

[717001]

My belly is safe. Nothing at Moorgate or WGC.

They finished at HAT just before 19:00 - think they are back in some places with something tomorrow morning.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Yes 717005 has been on time. I managed a return trip to Welwyn GC and Watton On Stone aboard it. It seemed to lose time on the Northern City Line. But made up most of the lost minutes North of Cuffley where there are fewer stops than usual.
Last time I checked 717006 had ommitted a few stops on the way back from Hertford North and was down to 9 late at Bowes Park heading in to Moorgate.

I remember when the 700s first started to appear on some of the semi-fast off-peak services I used from Welwyn Garden City to London. People I assume to be occasional travellers boarding at Hatfield and Potters Bar commented favourably on the bright, clean and spacious interiors (and the fact the trains were ‘longer than the old ones’). I wonder how people boarding at Hadley Wood and stations south thereof felt about the new trains? Occasional travellers would, presumably, be happy to have a ‘modern’ train, rather than one that’s over 40 years old?
I must confess, having boarded a WGC-Kings Cross service last Saturday that was formed with a Class 365, that I found the interior felt a little cramped and slightly claustrophobic now, after getting used to the 700s. I imagine the 313s will feel similarly cramped as more and more services become 717 diagrams..

 

[OwenB]

1800 Moorgate - WGC more civilised but losing time. At Finsbury Park but no idea why.

The audio announcements work, but the CIS is blank.

717006 performance today shows how fragile GN is unable to recover from a 10 minute delay with many skip stops during the day. 717005 (which I am on) has done fine today.

You can certainly see why they are taking things slowly. Not sure what caused the delay to the 1800. But if it was lack of familiarity then best ramp up slowly.

Doesn’t seem to have as many extras on it compared to this morning. That is considering it left Finsbury Park so late passengers for the 1815 may also be onboard.

Passenger alarm was pulled apparently (maybe not on this train). Left a few minutes late and was holding the 3 or so minutes late until the approx 10 min delay because of the alarm.

 

[jon0844]

The 717s are worse in my opinion than all BR units, and Desiro Classics too. 313s and 455s can sway a lot at speed, but the 717 has a harsh jolt rather than a gentler sway.

One other thing to note: The 717s have different door sounders to the 700s, having the louder type as installed on 345s.

There's a bright red light in the ceiling too.

 

[Railperf]

Also in Coach 1 of the 1800 this evening. Acceleration was good but just as we reached top speed had to start braking for the next stop. Better when the stations spread out further north, but as you say didn't recover much time if any.

Acceleration is very good indeed, though not quite on a par with a 700. Drivers are still getting used to the brakes - and new braking points - probably because they are travelling much faster than usual, and therefore braking earlier. On my evening run to Welwyn GC the driver clearly had a driver manager in attendance and was happy enough to use the acceleration, but the braking was very cautious, usually braking to 30mph and then easing off approximately 10 to 15 seconds before each platform ramp. And then very easy braking to a standstill. I haven't worked out yet how much time is gained by the superior acceleration yet, but a lot of the time advantage appears to be lost under braking!

 

[332 > 444]

Acceleration is very good indeed, though not quite on a par with a 700. Drivers are still getting used to the brakes - and new braking points - probably because they are travelling much faster than usual, and therefore braking earlier. On my evening run to Welwyn GC the driver clearly had a driver manager in attendance and was happy enough to use the acceleration, but the braking was very cautious, usually braking to 30mph and then easing off approximately 10 to 15 seconds before each platform ramp. And then very easy braking to a standstill. I haven't worked out yet how much time is gained by the superior acceleration yet, but a lot of the time advantage appears to be lost under braking!

It's best for drivers to keep the same braking points at least until they are well used to them, I try to come in the platforms at 23-25mph for 6 car platforms and 30mph for 8 car platforms. I was taught to brake from early in step 1 but it's hard to gauge what's step 1 in a stepless brake design. The 18:15 to WGC was late due to the previous late trains and then it showed a back cab door egress was pulled so that had to be investigated.

 

[choochoochoo]

It's best for drivers to keep the same braking points at least until they are well used to them, I try to come in the platforms at 23-25mph for 6 car platforms and 30mph for 8 car platforms. I was taught to brake from early in step 1 but it's hard to gauge what's step 1 in a stepless brake design. The 18:15 to WGC was late due to the previous late trains and then it showed a back cab door egress was pulled so that had to be investigated.

Can you not use 40% braking effort as step 1 and 60% as step 2 as a guide, as on 700s ?

 

[Railperf]

what sort of brake gauges are on these? are they similar to the older stock? And if so, can you use that as a guide?

 

[BowesRanger]

Probably. I was going to bail out and get the 1821 instead. Glad I didn’t. It is stuck behind me.

Seems to be quicker start / stop then the 313 but not really recovering much. Stopped further back at Brookmans Park but I am in coach 1 so don’t know if SDO was used.

Other than that can’t really tell that you are not on a 700.

We were on the same train...

Was a bit worried at Finsbury Park... Also did you notice people on the platform looking baffled at what had terned up, clearly not convinced it was their train?

 

[choochoochoo]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...-electric-trains-in-the-country-a4100166.html

Quality evening standard journalism. 100mph ? I guess I missed the briefing about Siemens turbocharging the 717s already !!

 

[jon0844]

Besides the 100mph gaffe, I think the article is mostly accurate. It's clearly based on the GTR press release though.

I notice the local press got the same 100mph error too.

 

[332 > 444]

Can you not use 40% braking effort as step 1 and 60% as step 2 as a guide, as on 700s ?

40% don't seem to work as a step 1, I'm usually between 40-60% just to get that gradual stop.

700, what's that now?

 

[387star]

These could easily have had class 378 style Interiors had tfl been in charge

Think these will be liked with seat firmness hardly mattering for very short metro journeys

 

[387star]

700s have very g

I remember when the 700s first started to appear on some of the semi-fast off-peak services I used from Welwyn Garden City to London. People I assume to be occasional travellers boarding at Hatfield and Potters Bar commented favourably on the bright, clean and spacious interiors (and the fact the trains were ‘longer than the old ones’). I wonder how people boarding at Hadley Wood and stations south thereof felt about the new trains? Occasional travellers would, presumably, be happy to have a ‘modern’ train, rather than one that’s over 40 years old?
I must confess, having boarded a WGC-Kings Cross service last Saturday that was formed with a Class 365, that I found the interior felt a little cramped and slightly claustrophobic now, after getting used to the 700s. I imagine the 313s will feel similarly cramped as more and more services become 717 diagrams..

700s are spacious and have very generous luggage racks compared to a 377
They are better with stand by lighting at night but it is driver discretion to use this

 

[OwenB]

Info screens off this morning and no announcements. Long wait at Drayton Park too, maybe they're being careful with the switch in power supply.