GN Class 717

[swt_passenger]

This isn't really 717 related but if anyone knows why these things exist, please let me know:
-The SDO 6 markers at stops between BOP and GDH (when do trains longer than 6 carriages ever go to these stations?)
-The SDO 8 marker on platform 4 at Alexandra Palace, the platform for Hertford Loop trains

I think it’s probably because ASDO systems use a failsafe positive control, so when a 6 or 8 car train stops at a 6 or 8 car platform the system still operates, and the signs confirm for the driver what should be happening.

 

[daniel1234321]

First 313 went to scrap this morning, number 026.

 

[daniel1234321]

Meanwhile 717002 ran the preview services today

 

[APUK002]

Indeed - online real time information sources such as Real Time Trains and Open Train Times (OTT), especially the maps on the latter may be introducing some regular travelers to the concept of individual trip IDs (what we all refer to as head codes) for the first time. I have shown the OTT map of my commute to a fair number of normal passengers, who tend to particularly appreciate the reassurance that a real world location for a train that is 'delayed' or just running late can give. Of course this means telling them that their train will appear as 2C13 (or whatever) each day. And for all those I have told, perhaps more have worked it out for themselves. While I expect it won't be appropriate for all passengers, it would not surprise me if some more official TOC or National Rail information sources didn't start to include this detail in future.

Yes agree with that. Would be great if all info included the headcodes/train ID! Would make claiming delay easier!

 

[choochoochoo]

Looks like they've got the trainees out signal sighting for the NCL portion now.

 

[Tony2]

At least 717002 717003 717004 working passenger services through Finsbury Park today

 

[Glen M]

What are the new 717 diagrams?

 

[jellybaby]

What are the new 717 diagrams?

See the FAQ at https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/a...your-railway/new-trains-for-moorgate-services

 

[daniel1234321]

At least 717002 717003 717004 working passenger services through Finsbury Park today

Yep, 004 on preview services to Gordon Hill, 003 on HE51 and 002 on HE53

 

[57Tonic]

With the May timetable change at Stevenage and the introduction of the replacement bus service to Monday to Sunday and the gradual introduction of 717s is it possible that the last 313 from Stevenage will be on the 17/18 May 2019.

 

[choochoochoo]

Is it me or do the 313s that are still out there seem to have a new lease of life ?

I've not driven one with dodgy traction motors in a while now. Other systems might be falling to pieces, but at least they don't seem to be as slow as they were a few months back ?

 

[332 > 444]

Is it me or do the 313s that are still out there seem to have a new lease of life ?

I've not driven one with dodgy traction motors in a while now. Other systems might be falling to pieces, but at least they don't seem to be as slow as they were a few months back ?

Don't tempt fate! I said that the other week after having done the 717 course, I had decent units but then I was nights so they perform better until the other week I had absolute

I wonder which carriage workings are switching over next week. No I cba to look as I'm lazy

 

[Class315]

Don't tempt fate! I said that the other week after having done the 717 course, I had decent units but then I was nights so they perform better until the other week I had absolute

I wonder which carriage workings are switching over next week. No I cba to look as I'm lazy

It appears two are converting, but will double check as I haven’t really looked at the paperwork too thoroughly & will post the CW’s when I get a free minute, if nobody beats me too it.

 

[BowesRanger]

Not sure which unit i was on, but left Moorgate shortly after 6pm yesterday. Shortly after departing Drayton Park, we came to a halt, which is fairly regular on the run up hill into Finsbury Park, but this lasted a fair while.. Driver eventually came on an announced they were dealing with a technical fault. Few more minutes passed, then it kinda felt like they turned it off and on again, and off we went.

Ran fast to Alexandra Palace, where i got off, but it seemed to be stationary there for a while.

Anyone know what's likely to have happened?

 

[daniel1234321]

Not sure which unit i was on, but left Moorgate shortly after 6pm yesterday. Shortly after departing Drayton Park, we came to a halt, which is fairly regular on the run up hill into Finsbury Park, but this lasted a fair while.. Driver eventually came on an announced they were dealing with a technical fault. Few more minutes passed, then it kinda felt like they turned it off and on again, and off we went.

Ran fast to Alexandra Palace, where i got off, but it seemed to be stationary there for a while.

Anyone know what's likely to have happened?

Was it this your train? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G12315/2019/04/09

 

[BowesRanger]

Was it this your train? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G12315/2019/04/09

Yep that's the one

 

[dcs34]

Not sure which unit i was on, but left Moorgate shortly after 6pm yesterday. Shortly after departing Drayton Park, we came to a halt, which is fairly regular on the run up hill into Finsbury Park, but this lasted a fair while.. Driver eventually came on an announced they were dealing with a technical fault. Few more minutes passed, then it kinda felt like they turned it off and on again, and off we went.

Ran fast to Alexandra Palace, where i got off, but it seemed to be stationary there for a while.

Anyone know what's likely to have happened?

I was on that train! The extra delay at Alexandra Palace was just because the driver was "on the phone to control" - and also to let a 313 overtake us out of the station.

Suspect the original fault was a poor connection with the OHPL - as there was quite a lot of clunking above us when we were stationary!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

717 006, 717 007 and 717 008 out on the three main diagrams today; not seen what's on the preview if it's still running.

 

[PizzaKing52]

I want to ride a Class 717 from Highbury to Welwyn tomorrow, and as the Victoria Line and Great Northern platforms are right next to each other, do I have to exit the station and buy a ticket or can I go straight to the GN platforms?

 

[Failed Unit]

I want to ride a Class 717 from Highbury to Welwyn tomorrow, and as the Victoria Line and Great Northern platforms are right next to each other, do I have to exit the station and buy a ticket or can I go straight to the GN platforms?

Depends on where you are going. If you are using oyster no. If you are going beyond the oyster boundary then I can’t think of any ticket machines platform side of the barrier.

They have oyster validation without leaving the station.

 

[jon0844]

Oyster will get you to Hadley Wood on the WGC branch or Hertford North on the Hertford Loop. You'd need to make sure you touched out and back in later at either destination (or any station in between) as per any other station.

 

[Class315]

As previously aforementioned, Two carriage workings convert to 717 on Monday 15/04 & Tuesday 16/04.

HE52 from Monday 15th April
3B21 06+12 Hornsey Depot to Hertford North
2J21 07:02 Hertford North to Moorgate
2V23 08:00 Moorgate to Welwyn GC
2K43 08:54 Welwyn GC to Moorgate
2V45 09:50 Moorgate to Welwyn GC
5I62 10+44 Welwyn GC to Welwyn GC via Reverse Sidings
2K62 11:09 Welwyn GC to Moorgate
2F64 12:10 Moorgate to Stevenage
2J83 13:28 Stevenage to Moorgate
2V85 14:50 Moorgate to Welwyn GC
5I16 15+44 Welwyn GC to Welwyn GC via Reverse Sidings
2K16 16:09 Welwyn GC to Moorgate
2B17 17:05 Moorgate to Hertford North
2J38 18:03 Hertford North to Moorgate
2V41 19:00 Moorgate to Welwyn GC
2K54 19:58 Welwyn GC to Moorgate
2B56 20:55 Moorgate to Hertford North
2J73 22:16 Hertford North to Moorgate
2F76 23:30 Moorgate to Stevenage
5E76 00+28 Stevenage to Hornsey


HE57 from Tuesday 16th April
5J01 03+31 Hornsey Depot to Stevenage
2J01 04:22 Stevenage to Kings Cross
2F01 05:21 Kings Cross to Stevenage
2J17 06:28 Stevenage to Moorgate
2F19 07:40 Moorgate to Watton-at-Stone
5J47 08+40 Watton-at-Stone to Watton-at-Stone via Langley Junction
2J47 09:07 Watton-at-Stone to Moorgate
2V49 10:20 Moorgate to Welwyn GC
5I66 11+14 Welwyn GC to Welwyn GC via Reverse Sidings
2K66 11:39 Welwyn GC to Moorgate
2F68 12:40 Moorgate to Watton-at-Stone
5J87 13+46 Watton-at-Stone to Watton-at-Stone via Langley Junction
2J87 14:11 Watton-at-Stone to Moorgate
2V89 15:20 Moorgate to Welwyn GC
5I21 16+14 Welwyn GC to Welwyn GC via Reverse Sidings
2K21 16:32 Welwyn GC to Moorgate
2V22 17:30 Moorgate to Welwyn GC
2K42 18:28 Welwyn GC to Moorgate
2B45 19:25 Moorgate to Hertford North
2J59 20:30 Hertford North to Moorgate
2V61 21:30 Moorgate to Welwyn GC
5E61 22+28 Welwyn GC to Hornsey Depot

Noticeable operational change sees 5F76 run empties to Hornsey vice Letchworth and 5J01 return empties to Stevenage a few hours later, I wonder whether this will be a long term permanent change or a short term whilst the units are bedded in.

 

[Arkady]

Forgive the ignorant question, but is there an easy way to tell from these lists which trains stop at Harringay and Hornsey?

 

[tofl]

Oyster will get you to Hadley Wood on the WGC branch or Hertford North on the Hertford Loop. You'd need to make sure you touched out and back in later at either destination (or any station in between) as per any other station.

Probably a bit off topic and may be covered in other threads but wondering what the logic is of PAYG coverage not going at least as far as WGC on the main line.

Also it's always good to have options but unless you're planning to just get a single or do a lot of travelling once in London then PAYG doesn't look good value compared to a paper off peak return - there is a daily cap but it's pretty high.

 

[Ethano92]

Probably a bit off topic and may be covered in other threads but wondering what the logic is of PAYG coverage not going at least as far as WGC on the main line.

They are extending it to WGC later this year. So far the oyster system on great northern has already been extended from crews hill to Hertford North.

I took a 717 from moorgate to Gordon Hill on Wednesday. As has been said before the pronunciation of "Highbury" is odd. The train did seem to pause for quite a bit at Drayton park but we may have been early. It was definitely longer than needed to raise the pantograph.

One thing I've heard is that drivers can actually slightly dim the lights of the passenger area on 700s and although I don't think I've ever seen it on 700s, to me the lights on the 717 did seem less forceful than the 700 I got on later that day.

 

[Aictos]

Forgive the ignorant question, but is there an easy way to tell from these lists which trains stop at Harringay and Hornsey?

The following services all call at Hornsey and Harringay, basically pretty much anything heading to Hertford stops at those stations while Welwyn GC doesn't

Tad stupid as Hertfords can run insulated between Finsbury Park and Stevenage and leave the WGC services to pick up those calls as they already have 2tph that only call at Hatfield and Potters Bar but also as WGC has 6tph to Finsbury Park off peak so should cut back the stoppers to 3tph as it used to be to allow the Hertfords to run fast between Finsbury Park and Alexandra Palace.

HE52 from Monday 15th April
2J21 07:02 Hertford North to Moorgate
2K43 08:54 Welwyn GC to Moorgate
2F64 12:10 Moorgate to Stevenage
2J83 13:28 Stevenage to Moorgate
2J38 18:03 Hertford North to Moorgate
2V41 19:00 Moorgate to Welwyn GC
2B56 20:55 Moorgate to Hertford North
2J73 22:16 Hertford North to Moorgate
2F76 23:30 Moorgate to Stevenage

HE57 from Tuesday 16th April

2J01 04:22 Stevenage to Kings Cross
2F01 05:21 Kings Cross to Stevenage
2J17 06:28 Stevenage to Moorgate
2F19 07:40 Moorgate to Watton-at-Stone
2J47 09:07 Watton-at-Stone to Moorgate
2F68 12:40 Moorgate to Watton-at-Stone
2J87 14:11 Watton-at-Stone to Moorgate
2K21 16:32 Welwyn GC to Moorgate
2B45 19:25 Moorgate to Hertford North
2J59 20:30 Hertford North to Moorgate
2V61 21:30 Moorgate to Welwyn GC

Hope that helps?

 

[jon0844]

Probably a bit off topic and may be covered in other threads but wondering what the logic is of PAYG coverage not going at least as far as WGC on the main line.

Also it's always good to have options but unless you're planning to just get a single or do a lot of travelling once in London then PAYG doesn't look good value compared to a paper off peak return - there is a daily cap but it's pretty high.

It's a limitation of the zones on Oyster. Hertford North is presumably being bodged the same way as Hertford East for consistency.

Contactless cards, and indeed ITSO cards that should be interoperable by July, have no such limitations and TfL is eventually going to make Oyster work the same way, sorting out the issue.

It's important to note that the zones still end at 6 (moved to Potters Bar on the WGC line and still at Crews Hill on the Hertford Loop). Beyond that, Oyster won't work to WGC but you can use PAYG to Hertford North. Season ticket holders will therefore get charged extra to Hertford as long as they have money on their card.

It also means users can't get an Oyster season from Hertford North, but I suppose that given all trains will call at Potters Bar it will be possible to split without any concern over combining tickets as existed in the past, as Hadley Wood was the boundary and only the slows (and some semi-fast trains) stopped there.

 

[Aictos]

Basically the back office system can't cope with more zones hence why Oyster is full and will remain as such until such a time that the system is upgraded.

Yes ITSO keys should be interoperable by July however there are no plans that I am aware of for railcards to be available for PAYG users which is a pity.

But I feel we might be going a tad off topic here....

Now as to the fleet, has there much much in the way needed for infrastructure improvements on the Hertford Loop from stop marker boards to platform lighting especially as there were some stations which had dispatchers to dispatch previously driver only dispatched services as there was issues with the platform lighting.

Also are the stop boards for the Class 717s in a different position to the existing ones on Hertford Loop stations?

 

[BJames]

Travelled on my first 717 this afternoon between Highbury & Islington and Enfield Chase. It's definitely a vast improvement. Came in 2 late to Highbury but made this time back up with ease by the time we were back to Enfield. No huge hold-ups at Drayton Park as some have reported, but did take slightly longer than 313s seem to.

The announcements worked well but the screens were not functioning - with the "train is ready to leave" message displayed throughout the journey.

I didn't think the ride quality on the NCL was too bad, but I haven't been on the NCL for a while - usually joining the northbound at Finsbury Park instead.

Is there any update regarding normal entry to weekend services?

 

[choochoochoo]

Travelled on my first 717 this afternoon between Highbury & Islington and Enfield Chase. It's definitely a vast improvement. Came in 2 late to Highbury but made this time back up with ease by the time we were back to Enfield. No huge hold-ups at Drayton Park as some have reported, but did take slightly longer than 313s seem to.

The announcements worked well but the screens were not functioning - with the "train is ready to leave" message displayed throughout the journey.

I didn't think the ride quality on the NCL was too bad, but I haven't been on the NCL for a while - usually joining the northbound at Finsbury Park instead.

Is there any update regarding normal entry to weekend services?

Don't know what it's like in the passenger saloon, but in the cab i feel a hell of a lot of vibration in the Watton at stone area in the up direction.

Also I suspect they'll adjust the timetable timings once the fleet is all 717s to factor in the improved performance. Which is a shame because it's nice knowing I can easily make up the lost minute here or there in a 717.