GNER Eurostars no more. (YIPEE)

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AJP

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After Decembers 11th 1840 Leeds-Kings Cross GNER is withdrawing its 373 eurostars and being replaced by 91's with MK4 coaches. :D :D :D
 
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yorkie

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AJP said:
After Decembers 11th 1840 Leeds-Kings Cross GNER is withdrawing its 373 eurostars and being replaced by 91's with MK4 coaches. :D :D :D
I will be sorry to see them go. The most comfortable trains on the network (IMO), although unfortunately unlike the HSTs & 91s they don't have power sockets.

It's also nice to have them to provide a bit of variety.

The diagrams will be swapped around quite a bit, no doubt, but it's not really true to say they're being replaced by 91s, more a case of the stock being replaced by leasing more HSTs. But the HSTs are probably more likely to work to Newcastle or Edinburgh than Leeds, I would guess, as the Leeds services tend to call at more stations.
 

Sprog

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I thought the witdrawal of GNER E*s was a bad thing for most people?

From what ive heard, people liked them, but ive never travelled on one myself, so i cant judge especially...

Getting alot of mixed feedback from the mallards, and I need to have ago on a Mallard set soon!! Only ever been on pre-refurb sets and that FO that was at the Railfest last year.......looked nice to me... :)
 

AJP

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yorkie said:
AJP said:
After Decembers 11th 1840 Leeds-Kings Cross GNER is withdrawing its 373 eurostars and being replaced by 91's with MK4 coaches. :D :D :D
I will be sorry to see them go. The most comfortable trains on the network (IMO), although unfortunately unlike the HSTs & 91s they don't have power sockets.

It's also nice to have them to provide a bit of variety.

The diagrams will be swapped around quite a bit, no doubt, but it's not really true to say they're being replaced by 91s, more a case of the stock being replaced by leasing more HSTs. But the HSTs are probably more likely to work to Newcastle or Edinburgh than Leeds, I would guess, as the Leeds services tend to call at more stations.

Im just going by liar magazine
 

AJP

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Imo mallard sets are well comfy, eurostars deafing you because squeek so badly. The doors are often bust or just dont open. They are to long for many station and can only do 110 mph. :roll:
 

yorkie

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AJP said:
Im just going by liar magazine
Depends on how they worded it, and also how you look at it.

The diagrams may (and probably will) go to 91 haulage. But in turn some 91 diagrams may go to HSTs. So if you say "Eurostars to Leeds will be replaced by 91s" that is correct, but overall on a fleet-basis GNER have leased more HSTs as they can't lease more 91s.

Another way of looking at it, is the Mallard refurb is complete, so there is an extra set or two available now (except there were HSTs covering for them...)

So neither is right or wrong, it just depends on how you look at it.

AJP said:
Imo mallard sets are well comfy, eurostars deafing you because squeek so badly. The doors are often bust or just dont open. They are to long for many station and can only do 110 mph. :roll:
They were limited to 110mph due to power supply limitations for the first year or two of operation, but that was resolved quite some time ago now.
 

Sprog

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AJP said:
liar magazine

RAIL magazine?? :?

jw, why does everyone seen to dislike Rail?? :idea:

Its never done me wrong, and it only rarley gets storys etc. incorrect.

Oh, and its the only mag thats fortnightly, so the news is up-to-date, unlike Railways Illustrated, Rail Magazine etc. that is a good few weeks old by the time its printed... :arrow:
 

AJP

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I dont mind it more people no it as liar :lol: I subscribe to it.

If its HST's Im well chuffed Ill be HST Bashing all the time :D
 

Sprog

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HST on the ECML, a delicay ive yet to try!!! <D <D
 

tramboy

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Sorry to see them go...they provide variety on what could otherwise be a very dull mainline passenger service. It's not many times you get to do domestic journey's on Eurostars.

We assume therefore that they are heading back to North Pole and sitting there for a few more years before someone else realises they are needed. Either that or Eurostar stick them on international services. There could even be (not likely mind) a re-emergence of the regional project when CTRL2 opens...faster journey times to here mean you have more time to get to other places, but I'm not holding my breath.

The new Mallard refurbs are good...but all I can say (and what most staff I've talked to would like) is the re-appearance of the vestibule end seats!

The doors on 373 sets aren't bust...they were designed before modern computers were about remember, so you just have to patient with them. Also, remember you've got the folding step gear that has to deploy before the door will actually open as well as checking you're on a platform! I'm quite partial to the sound of a * braking, mainly because they seem to enter short platforms at quite high speed before stopping by the end of it...and the squeal lets you know that something interesting is going on.

Hull Trains on the other hand will be happy to see them gone...Sunday usually sees a Pioneer in the block behind a 373 from Grantham-Newark...ie sat still because it catches it up.

It might be some while before we see properly articulated trains back on the domestic network.

They are excellent crowd swallowers, compared with your typical mk4, everyone on a n/b 373 a fortnight ago was sat down...and there was someone standing in every vestibule, and the carriage joins on a mallard set that followed it (i was one of the standees!) They are also comfy...you get used to it after a while! Power sockets are provided on the full size ones that have been refurbished...which presumably these will get in the end.

From someone who'll miss the originality of one speeding past.

Dave
 

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90s can only go 110mph and I believe another key issue was that GNER are trying to standardise their fleet.
 

yorkie

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Jonathan said:
Would it not make sense for GNER to take some EWS 90s on lease and some ex West Coast Mk3 and DVT sets...
It would, but not while there are spare HSTs.

I'm sure that the option could be considered if we get to a point where GNER want to further increase services and there are no spare HST sets. A 90 can keep to a 91 timetable on some, frequent-stations, diagrams(e.g. those that call at places like Stevenage, Newark, Retford, etc).
 

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Eurostars on the WCML to New Street? Most stations are too short on the ECML (and that's after lengthening some!), I dread to think what they'd be like on the WCML! Would have to run them fast from Euston to pretty much International or straight through to New Street, with them running fast through Wolverhampton to, say, Crewe and ultimately up to Glasgow (I'm just thinking of stations with lengthy platforms here). That would be a sight mind. Better yet would be re-instating Eurostar connecting HSTs to ensure the maximum amount of people can access the Eurostar services, a problem that ensures people have a stay in London if travelling from further afield than Reading, Stevenage, Ipswich...I can dream still...

Glad we saw the GNER-liveried 373 at Leeds on Saturday then. We would have bashed it to Wakefield, but we all wanted to do new lines instead. Pity, I needed to film it really. Too late now.
 

86242

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yorkie said:
It would, but not while there are spare HSTs.

I'm sure that the option could be considered if we get to a point where GNER want to further increase services and there are no spare HST sets. A 90 can keep to a 91 timetable on some, frequent-stations, diagrams(e.g. those that call at places like Stevenage, Newark, Retford, etc).

But it is a bit pointless running HSTs under the wires for all of journey after BR spending so much to electricfy the line 15 years ago...
 

Julian G

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well it such a shame Eurostars are going being replaced by plastic
 

Guinness

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I think the best option here to get Electric Traction. The problem is its 110mph Stock unless you re-gear the 90s to do 125mph, I remember you telling me Yorkie that it will be easy to stick to 125mph timing (Times can be always changed thought) so it could be a viable option for GNER.

As it currently stands in the Gen forum, MML are giving up 7 HSTs for GNER and using the 7 x 9 Car Meridians but not until Cricklewood Facilities are fully open, 3 x 222-9s can be ran at the moment. This is whats bound to happen as GNER already can accommodate HSTs. But it seems such a waste of fuel seen as its all under wires and with today's fuel prices, expect some form of fare rise.
 

joy54.gen

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Problem with the 89 is that spare parts would be a problem and expensive, due to them having to be specially made. Also all drivers would have to be retrained to drive them due to none of them signing them anymore.
 

yorkie

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1288gaje said:
well it such a shame Eurostars are going being replaced by plastic
Do you call HSTs plastic? :shock:

tubechallenger said:
Err, aren't Eurostars plastic or have I missed something?
No, they're not!

As for the 90s, they're ideal for services such as the 0600:

Code:
King's Cross	    06.00
Stevenage	       06.19
Peterborough 	   06.49
Grantham	        07.08
Newark North Gate  07.20
Retford	         07.35
Doncaster	       07.51
Wakefield Westgate 08.10
Leeds	           08.34

They can keep to those timings as a train like that doesn't have so much 125mph running, and the higher acceleration of a 90 (geared that way) will help.
 

tramboy

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Is it actually possible to regear a 90 to do 125mph though...I'm sure I read somewhere that a 90 is virtually a "second generation" 87, so that converting it to a higher gearing is difficult, plus changes the locomotive dynamics and could make it unstable. However, with a set of refurbished coaches and a DVT a 90 could feasibly do some Leeds diagrams.

TC, 373s are maybe "plastic" in the more construction sense of the word...but are a lot different and have a lot more character (IMO) to real "plastic" such as 390s. (No offence to 390 lovers out there)

Regards

Dave
 

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You would encounter a lot of problems regearing a 90 to make a 125 mph locomotive. They are set up as such that they will do around 120mph at the moment, but no more. They are only safety certificate passed for 121mph anyway.
 

Tomnick

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Anything that GNER do obtain as a replacement, really does need to be 125mph capable - sure, there might be one or two services that a 90 might be able to keep to the timings for, but that's unlikely to apply throughout the whole diagram. I can see why diesel traction might be a 'backwards step', but it would also give GNER more flexibilty for, in the future, diagramming those services that do go off the juice. Also don't forget that rising fuel prices are also likely to have an effect on the price of electricity!
 

ChristopherJ

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I'm not 100% sure but I'm partly sure the 373s were restricted to 110mph on the ECML. (or parts of it at least)

If this is the case I'm sure a 90+MK3s+DVT set would have no problem keeping up with the White Roses, maybe even out running them because I'm sure there were a couple of speed restrictions which applied to 373s only on the London-Leeds route which would of slowed them down even more.
 

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In response to ChrisJ, i think they have gauging issues rather than power supply. Its something to do with the air turbulance they cause
 

Tom B

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Jonathan said:
yorkie said:
It would, but not while there are spare HSTs.

I'm sure that the option could be considered if we get to a point where GNER want to further increase services and there are no spare HST sets. A 90 can keep to a 91 timetable on some, frequent-stations, diagrams(e.g. those that call at places like Stevenage, Newark, Retford, etc).

But it is a bit pointless running HSTs under the wires for all of journey after BR spending so much to electricfy the line 15 years ago...

But lots of services (Hull, Skipton, Inverness etc) need HSTS and with others I presume it's a matter of having a few trains spare.

Shouldn't the 90's be passed up to 132mph if they're able to do 120? +10%.

As for the 373s they are excellent crowd-soakers. Never failed to find a seat on one.
 
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