Go-Op developments...

[route:oxford]

An extra "clockface" service between Oxford and Birmingham certainly wouldn't go amiss. The Voyagers are absolutely mobbed

Direct services between Oxford and Swindon will be very handy too.

Would the 180s fit through the tunnels around Moor Street? I understand there are problems with them at New Street - they'd be perfect for this route.

Ideally GoCo, Wiltshire Council/Oxfordshire Council, Network Rail & FGW would get together to build a new station for Grove & Wantage (with 2 new 12 car platforms and 2 through running lines). It would have the potential to take 1000s of journeys off the roads.

 

[Class172]

It'll say somewhere in here http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...ability, Route availability&pageid=5523&root=
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'll try and find the important info tomorrow

 

[Royston Vasey]

An extra "clockface" service between Oxford and Birmingham certainly wouldn't go amiss. The Voyagers are absolutely mobbed

Direct services between Oxford and Swindon will be very handy too.

Would the 180s fit through the tunnels around Moor Street? I understand there are problems with them at New Street - they'd be perfect for this route.

Ideally GoCo, Wiltshire Council/Oxfordshire Council, Network Rail & FGW would get together to build a new station for Grove & Wantage (with 2 new 12 car platforms and 2 through running lines). It would have the potential to take 1000s of journeys off the roads.

Agreed, although 12 car would be a bit excessive! Milton Park, Culham Science Park, Culham European School all cause traffic issues in the mornings. Swindon and Wantage to Oxford would also relieve the A420 and Botley Road route into Oxford.

So a Swindon to Oxford via a reinstated Wantage Road would work well. You'd need a proper Park & Ride sitatued across the A338 or the mainline from Williams F1 and there are three and four track sections here (or track bed for such) to accommodate a new station. Onto a new station at Milton Park on the slows (which has been mooted for some time), via Didcot West Curve and up to Oxford, via Culham and Radley for Abingdon.

I think paths west of Didcot on the two-line section, and then further west if extending to Swindon would be a problem. I reckon theres enough school and general Swindon-Oxford flow to justify it outside the peaks though. The A420 never seems to quieten down, and the single carriageway sections cause big headaches in the peaks.

 

[gwr2006]

Not a sausage on the bidding for paths front though and Dec 11 is offered in May so unless they are looking for a mid-timetable start in 2012 I can't see it happening any time soon.

2013 is the new intended start date.

Their newsletter also says the service will be profitable after four years - now not even DB could wait that long for Wrexham & Shropshire to bring in a profit so not sure this crowd can! All sounds good on paper but the reality is another thing.

Also heard they've run into problems with ORR about too much abstraction from existing services as they don't really over anything different and their route competes with franchised services. Unless they can find a niche market and new customers then they may struggle to get approval.

Q, would they be allowed to carry passengers between Oxford and Banbury, or even pick up at Banbury (WSMR weren't allowed too!)?

 

[Ivo]

Also heard they've run into problems with ORR about too much abstraction from existing services as they don't really over anything different and their route competes with franchised services. Unless they can find a niche market and new customers then they may struggle to get approval.

It would certainly be of use to me! I'd be far happier travelling to Brum knowing I can do so without the use of a Voyager (or XC). I know it's not much, but it's a start! Ultimately though, their route can effectively be split into two; the section that has a link to Brum already, and that which doesn't. Stations west of and including Swindon are effectively within the Bristol catchment area for Birmingham and thus would not be able to provide much in the way of a new service...

 

[route:oxford]

Agreed, although 12 car would be a bit excessive!

I kind-of thought that to myself when I first posted it...

Then decided that if HSTs were to stop there, they'd need 2+8 car. And if IEP were to replace the HSTS, then they'd need 5+5 Car (26m coaches)...

Might as well start as you mean to go on.

 

[gwr2006]

I kind-of thought that to myself when I first posted it...

Then decided that if HSTs were to stop there, they'd need 2+8 car. And if IEP were to replace the HSTS, then they'd need 5+5 Car (26m coaches)...

Might as well start as you mean to go on.

Except that the cost difference between a 100m platform and one suitable for a 10-car IEP would be almost £900k. There's no way that HSTs/IEP are going to stop as the penalty for doing so would be too great both in time and capacity.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ultimately though, their route can effectively be split into two; the section that has a link to Brum already, and that which doesn't.

Where would you suggest their route is split? There are links to Birmingham at both ends of their mainline route. They will hardly make any money at all if the long distance journeys are removed and two legs are operated instead.

Stations west of and including Swindon are effectively within the Bristol catchment area for Birmingham and thus would not be able to provide much in the way of a new service...

But in which case, the stations east of Swindon also have at least half hourly trains to Birmingham so again not providing anything new.

 

[Ivo]

Where would you suggest their route is split? There are links to Birmingham at both ends of their mainline route. They will hardly make any money at all if the long distance journeys are removed and two legs are operated instead.

I take the point, but I didn't mean it in that way. I meant that the route that have planned can be considered as two different parts in one - the half that does have the Brum service, and the half that does not. Unless the latter provides a strong flow of Brum visitors, this will struggle with abstraction tests.

 

[12CSVT]

Sorry about the pessimism but if they can't organise a trial of a PPM on a preserved line, I can see any main line venture heading the same way as W&S within weeks.

 

[Oliver]

.

It would be nice to see if this comes off, but they would need some backers with deep pockets.

Then again, you also have the okehampton - Exeter St Davids - St James park service which it is hoped to start soon. I wonder how that will come on?

Seems to have gone quiet. Their 2011 timetable shows only trains from Okehamption to Meldon, nothing to Sampford Courtenay.

http://www.dartmoor-railway.co.uk/timetables.html

BTW, I saw a an ex-SR EMU motor coach travelling east on the M5 at Exeter yesterday (on a low-loader, obviously!). Does anyone know where that was heading?

 

[72C]

If memory serves me well the Go co-op has had several public meetings in Somerset, possibly in 2009/10, to explain the plan and look for folk to sign up, £200 I think was the sum mentioned. The Board have a range of experience including rail planning.

Initially they looked to run from Yeovil Junc via Pen Mill to Oxford and on to Birmingham a couple of times a day. I think I have to agree with Best Western and history seems to prove this as the plans have not moved beyond discussion as far as I am aware. As for the folk that put up money, your guess is as good as mine. May be not enough came forward.

 

[BestWestern]

If memory serves me well the Go co-op has had several public meetings in Somerset, possibly in 2009/10, to explain the plan and look for folk to sign up, £200 I think was the sum mentioned. The Board have a range of experience including rail planning.

Initially they looked to run from Yeovil Junc via Pen Mill to Oxford and on to Birmingham a couple of times a day. I think I have to agree with Best Western and history seems to prove this as the plans have not moved beyond discussion as far as I am aware. As for the folk that put up money, your guess is as good as mine. May be not enough came forward.

I'd have to argue that our mainline railway network really isn't the place for people to be 'playing trains', but sadly this is one of the problems of allowing 'Open Access'; you will always get minority interest groups who will produce grand designs for their own train services without fully appreciating what it would actually take to run one. This group would surely be much better directing their efforts towards lobbying existing TOC's and their MP's etc to improve or extend the existing services.

It's also worth pointing out that following the demise of WSMR, an even more obscure 'operator' like GoCo are highly unlikely to have qualified train crew queing up to leave their secure jobs elsewhere and come and work for them for the twelve months or so before they go under!

 

[IanXC]

I know the route is completely different, but does anyone know what demand was like for VT Cross Country's Birmingham to Swindon via Stroud service? Could at least be some measure of demand for end to end service.

 

[tbtc]

I know the route is completely different, but does anyone know what demand was like for VT Cross Country's Birmingham to Swindon via Stroud service? Could at least be some measure of demand for end to end service.

Dunno, but it was mainly just Gloucester/Cheltenham - Swindon (Birmingham service at the start and end of day), with aspirations to run hourly through to Birmingham (and beyond)

 

[Morgsie]

Go Coopeartive a prospective OAO proposes a service between Birmingham and Yeovil via Oxford and Westbury, intended from December 2011.

What are you thoughts?

 

[anthony263]

From looking at their website their plans is progressing well. I think they now plan on ordering brand new rolling stock so unless they are hiring in stock for a while i cant really see them starting in december 2011 as i dont think they have hired staff etc yet.

It is an interesting proposal consideirng they should get a few passengers traveling between Westbury & Swindon and i am sure that there will be a few passengers traveling between Swindon - Oxford if they dont need to change at Didoct.

i think there will be only a limited no. of trains between Yeovil & Wesbury with a 2 hourly service between Westbury & Oxford.

Overall it is interesting and a good idea particulary if it means Melksham etc get a much better train service than what it is currently getting and Christian Wolmar is particulary keen on it.

I remember the rumour that they did plan on using class 50's which attracted some people attention although that idea has been dropped.

As for teh rolling stock i suspect it will be stock capable of at least 100mph as it has to fit in between HST services between Chippenham & where the line to Oxford branches off near Didcot power station

 

[Eagle]

I thought GocoTrain were currently concentrating their efforts on their PPM trials on the Watercress Line and the Ludgershall freight branch.

For the record, Goco's proposed long-distance service calls at:
Yeovil Junction
Yeovil Pen Mill
Frome
Westbury
Trowbridge
Melksham
Chippenham
Swindon
Oxford

with a couple of extensions to:
Banbury
Leamington
Birmingham Moor Street

They intend to initially use existing LHCS (à la WSMR), then get their own trains, possibly enough to run some services to Weymouth.

All this shamelessly taken from the Wikipedia page, which is far easier to understand than their own site.

The planned start date is December 2013, not 2011 (they wouldn't have a snowflake's chance in the heart of a supernova of getting it ready within four months; they haven't even submitted any official application to NR or the ORR).

 

[Morgsie]

I got the 2011 date form their Wikipedia page which I agree is better to understand

 

[Eagle]

I got the 2011 date form their Wikipedia page

Good thing I just updated the Wikipedia page with a more recent citation then.

 

[swt_passenger]

Running as far as Yeovil has been abandoned, AIUI. They looked at the business case in detail and couldn't make it viable, hence later references all being about a Westbury service.

Can't find anything online to cite at the moment though.

 

[route:oxford]

Looking forward to it running. There is occasional talk of a "Grove & Wantage" station, it would be very popular with commuters to Swindon & Oxford.

It's going to be interesting how the Cooperative movement deals with the acquisition of rolling stock too. Ethical, fair-trade and without shareholders (albeit with members) will be an interesting competitor in the ROSCO environment.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's going to be interesting how the Cooperative movement deals with the acquisition of rolling stock too. Ethical, fair-trade and without shareholders (albeit with members) will be an interesting competitor in the ROSCO environment.

Will you get "dividend stamps" every time you travel

 

[route:oxford]

Hope so. Was gutted when my local cooperative sold their motor franchises. Used to get a huge number of points when I bought and serviced my cars.

 

[TheWalrus]

Itd be nice if they got like a 2car 172 or something

 

[anthony263]

Itd be nice if they got like a 2car 172 or something

I think a 3 carriage set would be better, considering the ammount of passengers they are likley to get, particulary from Melksham which only has the 2 trains in each direction per day.

I think it would be very popular with people wanting a dayout to Oxford as well

 

[TheWalrus]

Melksham is well overrated! Demand is very low theres no way you will need a 3 car, and if you did itd be for the swindon-oxford section. To put it in prospective there was 14 on the 1844 swindon-southampton on departure from swindon.

 

[anthony263]

Melksham is well overrated! Demand is very low theres no way you will need a 3 car, and if you did itd be for the swindon-oxford section. To put it in prospective there was 14 on the 1844 swindon-southampton on departure from swindon.

Well i dont think the current service level helps demand either hopefully with more trains the station will get more people.

By chance have you seen the sunday services from Melksham to Swindon & Weymouth? they have been busy with passengers from Melksham i have been told.

 

[RPI]

The Melkshams were dead even when there was 5 trains a day! seems strange that their original plan didnt involve a stop at Castle Cary which is quite an important and busy railhead for that part of Somerset.

 

[bnm]

The Melkshams were dead even when there was 5 trains a day!

A lot has changed in 5 years. Just take a look at the numbers who have been using the additional trains on Summer Sundays. All it takes is a bit of local advertising, positive communication with the TOC and the support of local authorities and you have a viable service. That has been achieved with the Summer Sunday services. A town of 21,000 and growing can support a better train service. Passenger numbers were on the increase when the service was reduced to two trains each way per day.

If GOCO does get off the ground you can bet your bottom dollar the incumbent TOC will be looking to run additional services in competition.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Will the Co-operative Bank be involved as the chosen financial partner to this proposed enterprise?