Gold card travelcard - why not on Oyster

[ess]

It seems incredible that after all the years Oyster has been available, if you have a season paper travelcard from outside the zones you can’t load the London zones bit onto an Oyster card. Surely it would speed up the queues at ticket barriers. Are there any plans to make this possible?

 

[Hadders]

You'd then need to carry your paper Gold Card for the journey outside the Zones and your Oyster card.

This would be open to abuse as the Oyster card could be given to someone else while you travel using the paper tcket.

Various train companies have their own smart cards, some of which can be loaded with an outboundary travelcard season ticket. GTR's The Key is an example of this.

 

[brtom]

And SWR. I'm not at all confident it would work on a bus though. Anyone know different?

 

[Joe Paxton]

And SWR. I'm not at all confident it would work on a bus though. Anyone know different?

It does. TfL updated the validators on London Buses to read ITSO smartcards a few years ago.

 

[higthomas]

It would be good if you could get some kind of boundary zone 6-wherever paper part, and then the in zones part on oyster.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It seems incredible that after all the years Oyster has been available, if you have a season paper travelcard from outside the zones you can’t load the London zones bit onto an Oyster card. Surely it would speed up the queues at ticket barriers. Are there any plans to make this possible?

TOCs now have their own smartcards, if you prefer that sort of thing.

Personally, I prefer paper Travelcards. No slower than Oyster and also no hassle with remembering to touch in and out.

 

[Samuel88]

It does. TfL updated the validators on London Buses to read ITSO smartcards a few years ago.

If that's the case, why do concessionary pass holders from outside London still have to show their passes to the driver?

 

[pacenotes]

We need a national railcard, Which they have been working on for a few years now.

eg if you buy an advanced fare on East coast it would be loaded onto your smart card or if you have a season ticket it could be loaded then linked to your bank card to pay for PAYG tickets.

TFL had hoped to sell Oyster to National rail but I don't think it will go ahead.

 

[swt_passenger]

We need a national railcard, Which they have been working on for a few years now.

eg if you buy an advanced fare on East coast it would be loaded onto your smart card or if you have a season ticket it could be loaded then linked to your bank card to pay for PAYG tickets.

TFL had hoped to sell Oyster to National rail but I don't think it will go ahead.

A national railcard is not the same as a national smartcard, which is what your post is about.
The holy grail of a National PAYG system is IMHO impossible until the railway is a 100% gated system.

 

[pacenotes]

I think you know what I meant, A card that will be available on all lines. If you want to call it a smart card you can call it that.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think you know what I meant, A card that will be available on all lines. If you want to call it a smart card you can call it that.

I did know what you mean. But at the same time far too many posters accidentally use "railcard" incorrectly. After all, many of us already have perfectly functional 'national railcards'.

 

[higthomas]

I think you know what I meant, A card that will be available on all lines. If you want to call it a smart card you can call it that.

No, no I didn't.
A railcard is very very different to a smartcard.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

A national railcard is not the same as a national smartcard, which is what your post is about.
The holy grail of a National PAYG system is IMHO impossible until the railway is a 100% gated system.

And the other problem is that it is unworkable on a system as large as the one in Great Britain, given the huge resultant fares that are possible. Do we simply cap all fares at some arbitrary level - say £100 - resulting in significant revenue reductions for some of the longer-distance TOCs with lots of business/walkup travellers? Or do we require all cards to be bought with a balance of, say, £500?

Clearly this is, quite apart from the cost of nationwide gates and 24-hour attending thereof, a major issue with a nationwide Oyster-like system. Countries that have implemented it, such as the Netherlands, have been able to do so only because they are a relatively much smaller country and because the fares there are also comparatively much lower than they are here. They solve the 'maximum fare' problem by temporarily taking €20 off the card's balance whenever it is trapped in. This is returned, less the fare payable, when the card is tapped out.

Do we set a £20 minimum fare like this? But what if someone travels a very long distance (much longer than £20 worth of travel) with only £20 of credit on their smartcards? If we set it to £100 then that would in itself make these smartcards unaffordable to many.

It's a very difficult situation.

 

[transmanche]

If that's the case, why do concessionary pass holders from outside London still have to show their passes to the driver?

Do they still need to do so? (I know the TfL website still says they do, but I assumed that they'd just forgotten to update it.)

TFL had hoped to sell Oyster to National rail but I don't think it will go ahead.

That seems unlikely, as Oyster has its limitations. An ITSO card allows for more flexibility.

If you want to call it a smart card you can call it that.

Being that it is a smartcard, that would seem to be the best thing to call it.

ITSO is the standard that is used for such cards (Oyster pre-dates the ITSO standard). And ITSO originally stood for Integrated Transport Smartcard Organisation.

 

[transmanche]

Clearly this is, quite apart from the cost of nationwide gates and 24-hour attending thereof, a major issue with a nationwide Oyster-like system. Countries that have implemented it, such as the Netherlands, have been able to do so only because they are a relatively much smaller country and because the fares there are also comparatively much lower than they are here. They solve the 'maximum fare' problem by temporarily taking €20 off the card's balance whenever it is trapped in. This is returned, less the fare payable, when the card is tapped out.

I don't think every station will need to gated full time. Existing smartcard systems such as TfL's Oyster have many stations ungated and only have smartcard validators at those stations. Others such as Nexus's POP card only have a handful of gated stations (and those are only staffed part-time), the rest only have validators - and unlike Oyster, POP season ticket holders must touch in and touch out every time.

Do we set a £20 minimum fare like this? But what if someone travels a very long distance (much longer than £20 worth of travel) with only £20 of credit on their smartcards? If we set it to £100 then that would in itself make these smartcards unaffordable to many.

Part fo the problem is that in many parts of the country, the same train performs multiple functions: it might be providing InterCity, regional express and even local journeys at different points along the route. Whilst PAYG is perfect for local journeys, it's unlikely that people would want to use PAYG for InterCity journeys. It would be better if people knew that PAYG was available for 'local' trains, but for InterCity trains you have to buy your ticket from a ticket machine before boarding - loading the ticket onto your smartcard. But defining what is a local train, what is a regional express, (what is an inter-regional express) and what is InterCity would be a bit of a nightmare!

It's a very difficult situation.

That is very true!

 

[mattdickinson]

I don't think every station will need to gated full time. Existing smartcard systems such as TfL's Oyster have many stations ungated and only have smartcard validators at those stations. Others such as Nexus's POP card only have a handful of gated stations (and those are only staffed part-time), the rest only have validators - and unlike Oyster, POP season ticket holders must touch in and touch out every time.

Part fo the problem is that in many parts of the country, the same train performs multiple functions: it might be providing InterCity, regional express and even local journeys at different points along the route. Whilst PAYG is perfect for local journeys, it's unlikely that people would want to use PAYG for InterCity journeys. It would be better if people knew that PAYG was available for 'local' trains, but for InterCity trains you have to buy your ticket from a ticket machine before boarding - loading the ticket onto your smartcard. But defining what is a local train, what is a regional express, (what is an inter-regional express) and what is InterCity would be a bit of a nightmare!

That is very true!

The Danish answer is a flag set on the smartcard at a TVM before making a long distance journey. Usually the deduction on touching in is around £8, but if the flag is set it's about £70.

From the rejsekort website:

If you are using a rejsekort anonymous and your journey crosses a black line on the map, you have to change the setting on your card to "national journey". To change the setting on your card, go to a Rejsekort ATM or point of sale.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The Danish answer is a flag set on the smartcard at a TVM before making a long distance journey.

And we're back to the Oyster Extension Permit, which worked so well last time.