Gordon Hill to London Terminals

[Be3G]

A friend of mine currently lives within walking distance of two stations, Gordon Hill and Enfield Town, and works within walking distance of Moorgate and Liverpool Street. She used to buy herself a zone 1–5 travelcard to cover all of her leisure and commuting travel, but ended up using the travelcard for little more than her commute to work which was solely walk-train-walk.

As you may know, a rail ticket sold from either Enfield Town or Enfield Chase is actually valid to/from both of those stations, using either GA or FCC respectively to travel in to Liverpool Street or Moorgate. It's not an ‘also available at’ ticket; instead it appears to be a one-off local arrangement with the origin actually printed as ENFIELD CHSE/TWN (formerly ENFIELD STATIONS). The complication is that my friend's nearest station on the FCC line is Gordon Hill, one stop further from London than ENC. So at Gordon Hill she asked for a ticket to enable her to use either line, and was apparently sold the CHSE/TWN ticket.

This worries me because, as far as I'm aware, a ticket to CHSE/TWN has no validity to Gordon Hill. A ticket to Gordon Hill would be the same price, so perhaps the ticket clerk misguidedly thought it would be valid, but according to the rule book it seems obvious to conclude that it's not. And as we know, FCC love throwing the rule book at people. Fortunately she's never encountered a gang of inspectors at Gordon Hill, but I fear that one day she might and will be, for want of a better word, scuppered. So my first question is, is there perhaps some kind of unpublished local easement/understanding meaning a CHSE/TWN ticket is valid to Gordon Hill, or am I correct in surmising that it isn't?

My other question is therefore, inevitably, what would a suitable ticket be? I thought a Gordon Hill to London Terminals might suffice, as under the three-mile rule I believe it to be valid from ENF too, where her journey would effectively start short. However, Liverpool Street isn't listed as an appropriate London terminal for GDH… but does that really matter, seeing as the NRCoC/NRG make no mention of needing to refer to such a list? I'm also concerned that GA inspectors, and barriers at Liverpool Street, might not look upon a ticket to Gordon Hill favourably – via ENF is actually her most frequently used route, so it wouldn't do to encounter difficulties that way on a daily basis.

Does anyone have any advice/ideas? Thanks in advance if you do.

 

[34D]

I believe the Gordon Hill to London Terminals ticket would be valid via Enfield Town also, however please wait for someone to list the permitted routes.

In the meantime, what is the mileage for both?

 

[Be3G]

ENC to Kings Cross is 9.12 whereas ENF to LST is 10.66 according to trainscanbecheaper.info, so the difference between the two routes is only about 1.5 miles. Hence my belief the ticket is valid according to the shortest-or-three-miles-longer rule, but the associated London terminals and attitudes of guards/barriers confuse things.

In terms of mapped routes, as far as I can tell GDH to LST isn't valid via ENF, as the only appropriate routeing point for GDH here is Finsbury Park.

 

[MikeWh]

I don't think Gordon Hill is valid via Enfield Town unless Enfield Chase to Enfield Town is a recognised walking interchange (and it isn't an Oyster OSI). Interestingly when you enquire about the Enfield ticket to London terminals it only lists the appropriate terminals for the origin station given, along with the travelcard options from that origin. I can't see a way of extending that validity to Gordon Hill, and if using the Chase Town ticket I'd want a letter from FCC customer services confirming that it is valid to Gordon Hill.

Or, and this could be a pain to get, ask for a zero fare excess at Moorgate on the occasions that travel to Gordon Hill is required. I don't know how feasible that would be though, given that Moorgate is run by LU.

 

[Be3G]

Sorry, a bit of local knowledge I should have included earlier! ENC is definitely a recognised interchange with ENF. You can verify this by using the NR site to plan a journey from GDH to LST via ENF; it's happy to provide an itinerary for such a journey paired with a normal £5.70 GDH to London Terminals single. Whilst telling you that LST isn't an appropriate terminal. :?

The zero fare excess is an interesting idea though… can they be applied to season tickets? I always assumed they were just for singles/returns. (Edit: I see now in my original post that I didn't make clear I was discussing season tickets.)

 

[yorkie]

I thought a Gordon Hill to London Terminals might suffice, as under the three-mile rule I believe it to be valid from ENF too

I agree, as the walk at Enfield is a recognised interchange.

As for an excess fare, they don't generally apply to Season tickets. Though in some cases there are exceptions to this (e.g. you may be able to obtain an excess from Std to 1st in this way by charging the difference between SDS & FDS) but not for over-distance.

 

[benk1342]

I don't envy your friend's chances of being able to make the journey into Liverpool Street via Enfield Town on a Gordon Hill ticket without hassle, but I would take those odds over her odds of getting away with using her current ticket at Gordon Hill if stopped.

 

[Be3G]

Thanks for the replies. So the conclusion seems to be that:

• As one might expect if not told otherwise by a ticket clerk, an ENFIELD CHSE/TWN ticket isn't valid to/from Gordon Hill;
• A Gordon Hill to London Terminals ticket is valid via Enfield Town to Liverpool Street;
• …but using the above ticket is likely to result in questions being asked and difficulties being experienced.

 

[yorkie]

I advise writing to FCC and/or Greater Anglia for clarification as to their position. I am happy to proof read a letter.

If a good reply is received, this could be carried on journeys. If not, we can cross that bridge when we come to it, but it may be appropriate to involve Passenger Focus and/or ATOC.

 

[Be3G]

Thanks for the offer of help, though I suspect that's a level of bother/complication my friend would rather avoid. I'll report back to her though and see what she thinks.