Gosport BRT

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Ivo

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In case anyone has missed it, this stupid thing is going to open next month.

First have been publicising a raft of changes they are planning to make upon the route's opening, available here. Apparently there will be "new Eclipse E1 and E2 routes [which] will be operated by brand new high specification buses with free on board wi-fi, leather seating, extra leg room, and real time information including audible and visual next stop displays".

Methinks the name "Eclipse" is deliberate :lol:

Let us hope this thing is worth it, unlike Cambridge's Mis-Guided one.

Of course we will all say that reopening the railway would be have a better option, and we will almost certainly be proven correct. However, if the route is at least mdoerately successful, they will be able to justify it, even if our idea is better...
 
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Schnellzug

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i don't see anything wrong with having dedicated roads for Buses, it sounds a very sensible idea to me, since the major reason why Buses aren't as reliable as Trains is traffic congestion. I don't see why there's a need to add Guidance as well, though, that seems to just add expense and complexity (or just ugly concrete barriers).
I also think, though this is of course far too optimistic and too sensible for First, it would be nice of some of the fairly new Volvos could be cascaded by the brand new high specification buses and transferred to other parts of Hampshire & Dorset, such, perhaps, as the Dorset part, which Hampshire always forgets exists. If anything is, though, almost certainly it'll be some scruffy old Darts, of course.
 

Firesprite

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You mean the Cambridgeshire one which is having to have additional buses ordered for it because passenger numbers keep rising?

Sounds "worth it" to me
What increaseing passenger numbers? Most of the misguided buses passing my office have less than ten people on them. The busway is running at a heavy loss to the taxpayer, 54 bus routes are being cut to divert funding to busway running costs, The park & Ride made a loss of £400,000 last year. The bus companies may make a profit, The token access charge payed by the bus companies barely make a dent in the busway running costs. Yet it is the Cambridgeshire taxpayer who has borne the true running cost.

The additional misguided buses are for use between Cambridge and Peterborough via Ramsey and the busway. Which only the freeloaders will use. People will just keep using the train and cover the distance in less than half the time, In far greater comfit and no need to cross your legs, Best of all you can eat and drink on the train unlike the bus. Apart from that the road from St Ives to Peterborough via Ramsey is in a poor state of repair.
 
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starrymarkb

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i don't see anything wrong with having dedicated roads for Buses, it sounds a very sensible idea to me, since the major reason why Buses aren't as reliable as Trains is traffic congestion. I don't see why there's a need to add Guidance as well, though, that seems to just add expense and complexity (or just ugly concrete barriers).
I also think, though this is of course far too optimistic and too sensible for First, it would be nice of some of the fairly new Volvos could be cascaded by the brand new high specification buses and transferred to other parts of Hampshire & Dorset, such, perhaps, as the Dorset part, which Hampshire always forgets exists. If anything is, though, almost certainly it'll be some scruffy old Darts, of course.
The Gosport Busway isn't guided. So guess it will be cheaper then Cambridge's
 

WatcherZero

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What increaseing passenger numbers? Most of the misguided buses passing my office have less than ten people on them. The busway is running at a heavy loss to the taxpayer, 54 bus routes are being cut to divert funding to busway running costs, The park & Ride made a loss of £400,000 last year. The bus companies may make a profit, The token access charge payed by the bus companies barely make a dent in the busway running costs. Yet it is the Cambridgeshire taxpayer who has borne the true running cost.

The additional misguided buses are for use between Cambridge and Peterborough via Ramsey and the busway. Which only the freeloaders will use. People will just keep using the train and cover the distance in less than half the time, In far greater comfit and no need to cross your legs, Best of all you can eat and drink on the train unlike the bus. Apart from that the road from St Ives to Peterborough via Ramsey is in a poor state of repair.
Your the same person who claimed you could see none running from your office when there was snow when they actually performed a full service.
 

Firesprite

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Your the same person who claimed you could see none running from your office when there was snow when they actually performed a full service.
What service, No buses were running, Maybe along the A14, You may believe the crap from the council.

Next you be telling us, That the council is not cutting 54 bus routes,
 

BestWestern

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A better use for the old trackbed would have been the South Hampshire Light Rapid Transit scheme which included a direct link to Portsmouth via a tunnel.

Unfortunately it became one of the many LRT schemes which failed to materialise in the last decade.
This scheme was exposed quite quickly as being totally unworkable, primarily due to the ridiculous suggestion that a tunnel could be built beneath Portsmouth Harbour, which would have needed to be so incredibly steep on either side that no rail vehicle would ever have been able to negotiate it.

This discussion has been had before of course, but the immediate response of many posters here that anything involving a bus is 'stupid' whilst a rail-based scheme running over exactly the same route would be a fantastic idea, makes very little sense. Tram systems are incredibly expensive and there are very valid reasons why many schemes worldwide now favour BRT solutions.

That said, I would probably have chosen somebody other than First to operate this one :|
 

scandal

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It appears from my research that the scheme is £20m, with a considerable input from the Community Infrastructure Levy, which compared to other BRT schemes is small fry. I'm not overly convinced looking at the visualisations that sufficient measures are in place to deter motorists from using the route but the proof will be in the pudding.

In regards to the actual scheme it is rather short at just over 2 miles, but I assume part of the justification of the current section was that a wide variety of buses serving Gosport could make use of it. Whilst it is a shame that the LRT system fell by the wayside, at such a small cost with a large potential to improve the public transport offer in Gosport I fail to see much criticism of the scheme. What this BRT, which is I suppose BRT-lite, system allows is public transport demand to grow in the corridor between Gosport and Fareham to a level where an LRT system is needed and could be supported as the case has been done in Amsterdam and other European cities. I see this as a good value start at improving public transport in the area and not a death nail to any potential LRT scheme, infact I see it as part of the beginning. For too long we see the choice as LRT or BRT, I think we need to understand that LRT is not appropriate for everywhere and nor is expensive concrete bus guide ways, so from a transport planning perspective Gosport puts forward an interesting area for further investigation.
 
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tbtc

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It appears from my research that the scheme is £20m, with a considerable input from the Community Infrastructure Levy, which compared to other BRT schemes is small fry. I'm not overly convinced looking at the visualisations that sufficient measures are in place to deter motorists from using the route but the proof will be in the pudding.

In regards to the actual scheme it is rather short at just over 2 miles, but I assume part of the justification of the current section was that a wide variety of buses serving Gosport could make use of it. Whilst it is a shame that the LRT system fell by the wayside, at such a small cost with a large potential to improve the public transport offer in Gosport I fail to see much criticism of the scheme. What this BRT, which is I suppose BRT-lite, system allows is public transport demand to grow in the corridor between Gosport and Fareham to a level where an LRT system is needed and could be supported as the case has been done in Amsterdam and other European cities. I see this as a good value start at improving public transport in the area and not a death nail to any potential LRT scheme, infact I see it as part of the beginning. For too long we see the choice as LRT or BRT, I think we need to understand that LRT is not appropriate for everywhere and nor is expensive concrete bus guide ways, so from a transport planning perspective Gosport puts forward an interesting area for further investigation.
Good thinking.

There's no reason why a Guided Busway can't be extended at a later date (it'd be a lot easier than extending a tram, and you wouldn't need a small number of additional custom built vehicles that you would on a tram extension) or converted to light rail.

There's certainly no "one size fits all" approach that works
 

GearJammer

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As ive said before i think people are missing the whole point here, i don't think this system will be all that successfull, for the simple following reason, traffic levels are at there worst on the A32 from Gosport - Fareham during the rush hour periods, but people are not traveling TO Fareham, they are traveling to places further away, like Portsmouth, Southampton etc, the only reason they go to Fareham is there is no other way of getting to the M27 other than going through Fareham, so whats the point in this bus route? People of Gosport leave there cars at home, jump on this nice fancy bus, it takes them to Fareham, then what, they have to wait for another bus to carry on there journey or walk to the railway station to get a train!
What should have been done is to build a road (Duel carriageway style) for everyone that goes from Gosport, avoids Fareham, and out to the Motorway.
Im sorry but as a person who knows Fareham very well i fail to see why anyone would want to go there, the town is a shadow of its former self, and tbh, theres not much reason to go there these days!
 
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