Got my details taken - Need Advice

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by Pierce2Daniel, 7 Jun 2015.

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  1. Pierce2Daniel

    Pierce2Daniel New Member

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    I've just come off the train at Hitchin from London,I thought my ticket allowed me to travel the next morning and I asked a lady at London if it was ok and she said it would be fine if I got the first train in the morning.

    Anyway, I now have learned not to trust a lot of the TFL staff as most don't really care especially compared to people who work at local train stations.

    I tried to get past the barriers at Hitchin but the lady at the gate said my ticket had expired. I was very unhappy and was admittedly rather belligerent to her. She took down my details, including my name and my address (which she checked with someone if I was on the electoral register), she then said that I would expect to hear from the company within the next month.

    She was very vague about the next stage and I was wondering if anyone here could tell me what will happen next?

    Will I be given a fixed penalty? - I looked online and a lot of places seem to suggest I could be charged £80.

    Or will they immediately try to take me to court without even attempting to give me a fine?

    Any help would be massively appreciated. Thank you.
     
  2. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Without knowing what ticket you held and what train you caught, it's difficult to comment. But if you held a Day Return this would have expired at 0429 so if you got a train this morning around 0800/0900 clearly that wouldn't be valid on a Day Return ticket.

    There is an Overnighter ticket that would have been valid for the journey you made.

    When and how exactly did you buy your ticket? When did you make your outward journey? Did you specify when you wanted to return? Were you asked? Were you offered this ticket?
    Without knowing which station you commenced your journey, what ticket you held exactly and details of any changes made, and who exactly you asked, it's difficult to comment, but it would have been best to ask Great Northern staff, rather than LU staff, if possible.

    I don't think we can say what "will" happen next.
    You were not charged a Penalty Fare, so Great Northern will either ask you to pay the single fare or they may threaten you with prosecution ( which may include an offer to reach an out of court settlement; such a settlement may be considered by some people to be rather like a 'fine' or 'fixed penalty')
    They will probably write to you asking for your version of events, before deciding what to do.

    They could take you to court without attempting to reach an out of court settlement.

    Or they could decide to ask you to pay an amount of money to keep the matter out of court (or, if they do not offer it, you could initiate it and they might agree to it), however there is nothing to say this settlement would be £80; it could be more or it could be less.

    If they do proceed to prosecute you, legal advice should be sought, however the severity of this depends on what legislation they use.
     
  3. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    Without knowing when the outward journey was made, you cannot be certain of that.
     
  4. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I did say "Without knowing what ticket you held and what train you caught, it's difficult to comment" which I thought had covered that uncertainty.

    However when he says "I thought my ticket allowed me to travel the next morning" and his return journey was made on a Sunday, that suggests outward ravel was made on a Saturday and therefore an Overnighter would, as far as I can tell, have been valid.

    I can only repeat to the OP that "Without knowing what ticket you held and what train you caught, it's difficult to comment", and indeed I won't be commenting further unless there is full information provided ;)
     
  5. Puffing Devil

    Puffing Devil Member

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    Agree with all of the above, except the final paragraph.

    If they do decide to prosecute, please post here first as there are members with good legal knowledge who may be able to advise before reaching for a paid lawyer.
     
  6. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Were you offered a Penalty Fare? Did you decline it?
     
  7. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Are GN gateline staff authorised to issue penalty fares?

    Edit: I would like to think that if they are PF trained that they would have realised that this is exactly the kind of situation they are intended for.
     
    Last edited: 7 Jun 2015
  8. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Indeed. It would seem to me that a Penalty Fare would have been the correct solution to this issue on both sides.
     
  9. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    The Overnighter is only valid for outward travel after midday.
     
  10. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    I think to start with we need to wait for the OP to post back telling us the ticket type held and the exact trains he traveled on.
     
  11. furlong

    furlong Established Member

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    Was she just some helpful member of the public or did you have some particular reason to believe her answer would be authoritative? Might there have been some misunderstanding as to the meaning of 'first train in the morning'?
     
  12. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    I do wish the Overnighter let you travel back the same night OR the next morning, so you didn't have to make a choice. It would be far more flexible, and sold at a premium anyway. AFAIK the ticket means you must use it the following morning, so would actually get in trouble for bailing on a night out and coming home 'early'.

    The mere fact it's restricted to after 12pm on day one and before 12pm on day two means I can't think of any loophole that would see it suddenly open to abuse?
     
  13. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    As the restriction is "trains before 1159 on Saturday/Sunday" presumably this includes the 0001, 0004, 0007, 0031, 0035, 0105 and 0135 on a Saturday morning and 0005, 0015, 0022, 0053 and 0056 on a Sunday morning as well as both when the service recommences?
     
  14. danbushell

    danbushell Member

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    Have never heard of the 'Overnighter' fares.
    Do all train companies issue them or is it restricted to Great Northern?
    Apologies for talking slightly off topic.
     
  15. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    This is a fairly recent introduction on Great Northern and Thameslink.
     
  16. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    Not sure if this post can go any further for now as the OP has not provided any further details that are required (and I am assuming he/she will most likely be getting an email update how new posts).

    The overnighter. There is a page on it on the TL/GN Website and detailed restriction codes on BRfares if say you looked up a London to Brighton. It is a listed restriction of, outward travel on day 1 and return travel on day 2. So for the return journey it can be any train midnight onwards to come back.Am happy to have a separate thread on Overnighters and how to get best use out of the if anyone wants or the mods want to separate this post into 2 topics.
     
  17. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    Yes, still straying off-topic I know, but...
    If the Overnighter is used for the outward journey after midday on Friday, then it is valid for return on trains before midday on Saturday. I see nothing in the restriction which expressly prevents it being used to return on the same day. This applies equally to outward travel on the Saturday, although it is then undercut by the Super Off Peak Day Return for travelling back the same day.
     
  18. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    I think return travel MUST be on day 2 i.e. after midnight.

    http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?...pert=on&flow=1&multi=4&fare=8&rte=789&tkt=OVN

    Outward & Return Validity: OUTDAY1RTNDAY2

    RETURN TRAVEL
    Valid on any train timed to
    depart before 11.59 on
    Saturday also valid on any
    train timed to depart before
    11.59 on Sunday.

    Return Journey
    Summary: SATURDAY BEFORE 1200 (NOON) SUNDAY BEFORE 1200

    (mods feel free to split into separate topic)
     
  19. Mag_seven

    Mag_seven Established Member

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    Maybe the return restriction for the avoidance of doubt should read:
    Valid on any train timed to
    depart between 00.01 and 11.59 on
    Saturday
    also valid on any
    train timed to depart between 00.01 and
    11.59 on Sunday
    .
     
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