Government is totally inconsistent on Covid.

[Justin Smith]

The government's attitude to Covid is obviously now completely inconsistent.

On the one hand they're telling us Covid is so dangerous we have to quarantine people coming back into this country and everyone has to wear masks indoors.

On the other they've reopened pubs, they're threatening to fine parents for not sending their kids to school and they're subsidising people to go to restaurants !
As regards getting kids back to school they're also falling over themselves to conveniently forget all their previous pronouncements ("this virus is indiscriminate") and now telling us the risk to children is "very small". But they can't even get their advice consistent, here is the current NHS advice about children and Covid :

"Children can get coronavirus (COVID-19), but they seem to get it less often than adults and it's usually less serious".

(link)

That has not been updated for months. It vastly understates the case, children are at hardly any risk from Covid at all, not "it's usually less serious [for them]". In fact children without significant existing health conditions could conceivably be defined as "almost immune" (from death at any rate). Trump talks loads of ballcox but he wasn't actually that far off the truth with his pronouncement on that one, so it's ironic he was temporarily removed from Twitter etc for it !
This useless spinless government are now desperate to do a 180 and reassure parents about getting kids back to school, yet their health service is hardly helping with this one !

 

[scotrail158713]

Absolutely. Ironically the governments inconsistency has been their only consistency throughout the pandemic.

 

[Justin Smith]

Absolutely. Ironically the governments inconsistency has been their only consistency throughout the pandemic.

Very good (and very true)......

 

[talldave]

Now if we had a Labour government we'd probably create a raft of inconsistency monitoring jobs to compile statistics

 

[eoff]

The danger TO children must be pretty small to the extent that parents should worry about other risks. The problem would be that large numbers of them get the virus and pass it on to teachers or more likely at home and it would be late in an outbreak when you spot it as children presumably don't show symptoms. The danger to other age groups is also low (but I don't understand the risk in comparison to normal risks we face.)

I originally thought the strategy was obvious, let as many people get the virus as is practical to keep under some threshold where the NHS is not 'overwhelmed' but keep business running. That explains the delays in lockdown and inconsistency in rules (face coverings in shops but not at work). Scotland was consistent with this by sending known infected people in hospitals back to care homes at the time the advice seemed to be understood as not to "burden" hospitals with old people.

The other choices were.

• Do nothing
• Clamp down early and very dramatically (shut everything and have proper testing/tracing).

This middle ground is costing a fortune with no end in sight because whatever choices are taken we need the virus to be stamped out to the extent that only external travel is a problem and for that we need other countries to get on top of this.

 

[Andyh82]

Of course there is inconsistency

Open pubs
But they might help spread the virus
Ok shut pubs
But they may go out of business and people may lose their jobs
Ok give them money to stay afloat
But the economy is suffering
Ok open pubs...

Replace pubs, with holiday companies for the same answer

 

[Justin Smith]

The danger TO children must be pretty small to the extent that parents should worry about other risks. The problem would be that large numbers of them get the virus and pass it on to teachers or more likely at home and it would be late in an outbreak when you spot it as children presumably don't show symptoms. The danger to other age groups is also low (but I don't understand the risk in comparison to normal risks we face.)

I originally thought the strategy was obvious, let as many people get the virus as is practical to keep under some threshold where the NHS is not 'overwhelmed' but keep business running. That explains the delays in lockdown and inconsistency in rules (face coverings in shops but not at work). Scotland was consistent with this by sending known infected people in hospitals back to care homes at the time the advice seemed to be understood as not to "burden" hospitals with old people.

The other choices were.

• Do nothing
• Clamp down early and very dramatically (shut everything and have proper testing/tracing).

This middle ground is costing a fortune with no end in sight because whatever choices are taken we need the virus to be stamped out to the extent that only external travel is a problem and for that we need other countries to get on top of this.

They are not following "a middle course". Whilst ever, for example, people cannot plan a holiday, cannot go into go into a shop (or travel on public transport) without a mask, or cannot attend a football match (or similar), they are clamping down. A "middle course" would have been what I have been advocating right from the beginning, protect and isolate the vulnerable (at their choice, this is a free country) and everyone else just carry on as normal. If I thought that was the right course at the beginning I'm even more sure it's the right course now because the death rate is at such a low level anyway. They are now better at treating (the side effects of) Covid and, in my view, we have significant herd immunity in this country as well, see "Infection rates v death rates and a possible second wave"..
But, as the thread argues, the government are doing neither one thing nor the other. They are trying to have their cake and eat it when in reality there is no cake anyway...... This is all made so much worse by the fact more and more people do not believe a lot of what they say because they were less than honest with the public in the first place "this virus is indiscriminate" being the best example, but also how infectious it is supposed to be. Ironically, all these lockdowns and "social distancing" can only really work if the virus isn't this entity that is capable of living on a door handle for days (or travelling X million feet) and then infecting people.

 

[Vinnym]

To be honest , all governments have been inconsistent. We are dealing with a once in a lifetime health crisis. Governments will be damned if they do and damned if they don’t. It’s very easy for the media to pick through every governments decisions and criticise, it’s easy to do that if you are not the one that has to make the decisions.

 

[Bantamzen]

To be honest , all governments have been inconsistent. We are dealing with a once in a lifetime health crisis. Governments will be damned if they do and damned if they don’t. It’s very easy for the media to pick through every governments decisions and criticise, it’s easy to do that if you are not the one that has to make the decisions.

No, we are dealing with a once in a lifetime political crisis. We had a similar number of excess deaths back in the winter of 2017/18, and nobody batted an eyelid.

 

[talldave]

The government appear to be turning it into a lifetime health crisis, when it's not.

 

[greyman42]

To be honest , all governments have been inconsistent.

Sweden seem to have been consistent. Is there nothing we can learn from them?

 

[yorkie]

To be honest , all governments have been inconsistent.

I disagree; none has been anywhere near as inconsistent as we have.
How have Sweden been "inconsistent"?

 

[bramling]

I disagree; none has been anywhere near as inconsistent as we have.
How have Sweden been "inconsistent"?

This country is a complete shambles. On the one hand let’s pack restaurants to capacity with discount dining, then barely a week later it’s all young people’s fault and we’re apparently heading for a second lockdown, yet on another hand the increase in cases is all down to testing.

And of course this week is very convenient timing just as Brexit is in the news.

 

[thejuggler]

Amazing he didn't realise 'common sense' isn't a common denominator for all the population. No one can be susprised it has elad us to where we are now.

I heard some of his speech and he actually sounded sensible and lucid for the 10 minutes or so, but I understand he went into slogan speak.

 

[brad465]

This country is a complete shambles. On the one hand let’s pack restaurants to capacity with discount dining, then barely a week later it’s all young people’s fault and we’re apparently heading for a second lockdown, yet on another hand the increase in cases is all down to testing.

And of course this week is very convenient timing just as Brexit is in the news.

As we've been talking about elsewhere, the need to throw dead cat stories to cover up other failings, whether on Brexit, Covid-19, Exams, etc., means they probably feel they have to make more announcements that create these inconsistent messages.

 

[Yew]

Amazing he didn't realise 'common sense' isn't a common denominator for all the population. No one can be susprised it has elad us to where we are now.

I've generally found that "common sense" and "my narrow minded opinions based on a few media snippets" are often synonymous.

 

[Cowley]

The messaging may be somewhat mixed from the various parts of the UK and their governments, but this is pretty astonishingly stupid really...

MP Margaret Ferrier's Covid Parliament trip 'indefensible'

SNP MP Margaret Ferrier is facing calls to resign after she was suspended by her party.

www.bbc.co.uk

Scotland's first minister says the actions of an SNP MP who travelled to Westminster despite experiencing Covid symptoms are "utterly indefensible".

Margaret Ferrier said she made the journey because she was feeling "much better" - but also returned home after getting a positive test result.

The MP, who has been suspended by her party, said there was "no excuse for my actions".

Nicola Sturgeon tweeted her support for the decision to suspend the MP.

She said: "This is utterly indefensible. It's hard to express just how angry I feel on behalf of people across the country making hard sacrifices every day to help beat Covid.

"The rules apply to everyone and they're in place to keep people safe. @Ianblackford_MP is right to suspend the whip."[/Q

 

[bramling]

The messaging may be somewhat mixed from the various parts of the UK and their governments, but this is pretty astonishingly stupid really...

MP Margaret Ferrier's Covid Parliament trip 'indefensible'

SNP MP Margaret Ferrier is facing calls to resign after she was suspended by her party.

www.bbc.co.uk

Time to say goodbye, methinks.

What on earth was she thinking?

 

[Cowley]

Time to say goodbye, methinks.

What on earth was she thinking?

I know. If you’re not competent enough to make the correct decision in a situation like that then there’s absolutely no way that you should be taking decisions on behalf of the public.
I mean even Dominic Cummings had the sense not to use public transport...

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Time to say goodbye, methinks.

What on earth was she thinking?

Given that there are 650 MPs, that means the House Of Commons had an infection rate of 153.8 per 100,000 on Monday. Can we therefore look forward to lockdown measures being taken against ALL politicians next week? What a pleasant thought!

 

[ScotTrains]

Time to say goodbye, methinks.

What on earth was she thinking?

Absolutely shocking! It really puts you off using public transport, with elected people like this knowingly spreading the virus puting lives at risk. I'm due to travel the same route next week for the first time since lockdown. Do the SNP MP's typically travel in first or standard class? I really hope there is none in my coach! I've paid extra to travel in 1st to avoid crowds or numpties like this.

 

[Cowley]

Absolutely shocking! It really puts you off using public transport, with elected people like this knowingly spreading the virus puting lives at risk. I'm due to travel the same route next week for the first time since lockdown. Do the SNP MP's typically travel in first or standard class? I really hope there is none in my coach! I've paid extra to travel in 1st to avoid crowds or numpties like this.

I’m not particularly worried about catching it because I just don’t want to live my life in that panicked way, but if I knew I had it (or even if I thought there was a chance I had) there’s no way that I’d go on public transport.

We’ve had some kind of bug going through the family this week (as is normal at this time of year) and we’ve tried to be reasonably sensible and let people know that we’ve been poorly if they’ve had plans to come into contact with us. But to wilfully expose yourself to potentially hundreds of people seems completely bizarre to me in the current climate.

I’m sure that there’ll be some kind of justification mentioned in the press that she just didn’t want to be away from her family for two weeks while she was quarantined and to some extent I do actually understand that, even if she did massively break the rules installed by her own party.

The thing that I’m mostly struggling to get my head around with though, is the fact that she thought she could get away with catching the train, and that nobody would notice?

Bonkers!

 

[BJames]

I’m not particularly worried about catching it because I just don’t want to live my life in that panicked way, but if I knew I had it (or even if I thought there was a chance I had) there’s no way that I’d go on public transport.

We’ve had some kind of bug going through the family this week (as is normal at this time of year) and we’ve tried to be reasonably sensible and let people know that we’ve been poorly if they’ve had plans to come into contact with us. But to wilfully expose yourself to potentially hundreds of people seems completely bizarre to me in the current climate.

I’m sure that there’ll be some kind of justification mentioned in the press that she just didn’t want to be away from her family for two weeks while she was quarantined and to some extent I do actually understand that, even if she did massively break the rules installed by her own party.

The thing that I’m mostly struggling to get my head around with though, is the fact that she thought she could get away with catching the train, and that nobody would notice?

Bonkers!

This is exactly what I think as well. I am not concerned in the slightest (having just had covid anyway) but when I had symptoms, I stayed inside until I could get a test. And when I got the positive result, I stayed inside until my isolation period was up. Not once did I think that I should go for a journey back to uni on public transport. She should not have travelled down to London in the first place - she had gone for a test before travelling to London and justified travelling to London because she "felt better" - until her result she should not have left her house, let alone her area! I understand not wanting to be away for quarantine but that was an entirely forseeable issue that could have been avoided.

It is certainly people like this that make the rest of us even less likely to abide by the large impositions on our freedom.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Good lord. Even in non COVID times common decency should make us want to respect our fellow passengers by not taking public transport.

 

[takno]

Absolutely shocking! It really puts you off using public transport, with elected people like this knowingly spreading the virus puting lives at risk. I'm due to travel the same route next week for the first time since lockdown. Do the SNP MP's typically travel in first or standard class? I really hope there is none in my coach! I've paid extra to travel in 1st to avoid crowds or numpties like this.

You won't come particularly near anybody on LNER trains at the moment. They're well-spaced out and the stations aren't busy.

I'd generally be a bit more forgiving of what she did if she was a normal citizen, but she's an MP of a party that's taking an extremely hard and unreasonable line on the whole Coronavirus thing. I hope she loses the whip and has a good long think about the things she has been supporting.

 

[DustyBin]

They are not following "a middle course". Whilst ever, for example, people cannot plan a holiday, cannot go into go into a shop (or travel on public transport) without a mask, or cannot attend a football match (or similar), they are clamping down. A "middle course" would have been what I have been advocating right from the beginning, protect and isolate the vulnerable (at their choice, this is a free country) and everyone else just carry on as normal. If I thought that was the right course at the beginning I'm even more sure it's the right course now because the death rate is at such a low level anyway. They are now better at treating (the side effects of) Covid and, in my view, we have significant herd immunity in this country as well, see "Infection rates v death rates and a possible second wave"..
But, as the thread argues, the government are doing neither one thing nor the other. They are trying to have their cake and eat it when in reality there is no cake anyway...... This is all made so much worse by the fact more and more people do not believe a lot of what they say because they were less than honest with the public in the first place "this virus is indiscriminate" being the best example, but also how infectious it is supposed to be. Ironically, all these lockdowns and "social distancing" can only really work if the virus isn't this entity that is capable of living on a door handle for days (or travelling X million feet) and then infecting people.

Im my opinion your ‘middle course’ is the only sensible exit strategy at this point. We know who is vulnerable without question, so why not simply protect them? Supply them with effective face coverings proven to work (at the tax payers expense if needs be), maybe encourage the introduction of ‘safe areas’ on public transport for example (although I’m not sure I like the idea of segregation) and come up with a ‘respect the vulnerable’ type slogan.

This almost seems too straightforward so I’m sure I must be missing something, therefore please feel free to point out the problems with this strategy....

 

[PHILIPE]

At least the SNP are taking action against Margaret Ferrier which is what the Tories failed to do in the case of Dominic Cummings.

 

[Darandio]

At least the SNP are taking action against Margaret Ferrier which is what the Tories failed to do in the case of Dominic Cummings.

Because he would never have sacked/suspended himself.....

 

[AM9]

... Do the SNP MP's typically travel in first or standard class? I really hope there is none in my coach! I've paid extra to travel in 1st to avoid crowds or numpties like this.

No, you've paid extra to travel in more spacious accommodation, possible with some extra benefits, none of which include an absence of people carrying infectious diseases.

At least the SNP are taking action against Margaret Ferrier which is what the Tories failed to do in the case of Dominic Cummings.

I think that we will find the Conservatives strangely muted on this topic.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Supply them with effective face coverings proven to work