Government Plan for Drivers

[JamesT]

The question then is whether they really have gone up quite as much as the premiums have, or whether it's gone up some portion of that, and they've realised they can whack it up more under the same excuse. Maybe their costs have gone up disproportionately, or maybe they haven't, they're hardly a reputable bunch, so we're reliant completely on whether the regulator is effective

According to https://www.ey.com/en_uk/news/2023/06/ey-uk-motor-insurance-results-analysis

UK motor insurers reported a loss-making Net Combined Ratio (NCR) in 2022 of 109.5%, driven by high inflation and lagging premium increases
Further losses predicted in 2023 with an NCR of 108.5% forecast, due to persistent inflation and expected increase in damage claims post-pandemic
16% jump in premiums expected over 2023 (£74 per policy), as insurers adjust prices to reflect inflation impact

Insurance companies are obliged by law to publish accounts, so it wouldn’t be hard to spot if they were making excessive profits.

 

[Enthusiast]

All very well but having never been liable for an accident, why should I pay more for other people's mishaps?

Because the principle of insurance is that the misfortunes of the unfortunate few are paid for by the good fortune of the fortunate many. All policyholders pay for the claims of those who have made them, not just those who have made claims.

 

[Vespa]

While I appreciate this is a forum dedicated primarily to public transport and indeed I do use park and ride where possible to go into cities.

I have to drive because where I work don't have public transport at Stupid O'clock in the morning or evening, I own two cars one for work, the other is for weekend driving and back up car for work if my other car fails, there is no real alternative to that, my job pays for my living cost and my house, it can also work out cheaper and more convenient to use the car instead of the train I occasionally car camp to save cost on hotels.

 

[johncrossley]

Some people can't drive and/or can't afford a car. Can they live without a car?

 

[Kite159]

Insurance companies are obliged by law to publish accounts, so it wouldn’t be hard to spot if they were making excessive profits.

Unless they are using 'Hollywood Accounting' techniques to divert profits elsewhere within the business.

While I appreciate this is a forum dedicated primarily to public transport and indeed I do use park and ride where possible to go into cities.

I have to drive because where I work don't have public transport at Stupid O'clock in the morning or evening, I own two cars one for work, the other is for weekend driving and back up car for work if my other car fails, there is no real alternative to that, my job pays for my living cost and my house, it can also work out cheaper and more convenient to use the car instead of the train I occasionally car camp to save cost on hotels.

And some people work in areas which might have public transport but it's not an easy journey to make from their home, involving multiple buses which takes ages where they can drive it within 15-20 minutes

 

[birchesgreen]

And some people work in areas which might have public transport but it's not an easy journey to make from their home, involving multiple buses which takes ages where they can drive it within 15-20 minutes

Yes that would be the case for me. Driving to work usually takes about 20 minutes, however taking the bus (or two buses in my case) takes at least 70 minutes and a ten minute walk. Such a ridiculous difference.

 

[Kite159]

Yes that would be the case for me. Driving to work usually takes about 20 minutes, however taking the bus (or two buses in my case) takes at least 70 minutes and a ten minute walk. Such a ridiculous difference.

For me it's a 15 minute drive, but looking at nearly 90 minutes if I needed to use a train followed by a bus. At least my current office has a nearby bus stop out of a side gate as my last office would have been a 20 minute walk.

 

[johncrossley]

It is not news that trips by car can be much shorter in duration than trips by public transport. What if a new mode of transport was invented that could get from Inverness to London in 5 minutes for 5p, but at severe environmental and social cost? It would be unacceptable.

 

[JamesRowden]

Some people can't drive and/or can't afford a car. Can they live without a car?

It's easy. I just designed my life around not being allowed to drive. Got a property in a small town about 20 minutes walk from a good job.

 

[johncrossley]

in a small town

Showing that going without a car is possible even in a place that isn't a major metropolis, contrary to common belief.

 

[341o2]

One example that fits in with your opinion.
However, I have learned something important today that luxury items are legitimate business expenses

 

[JamesRowden]

One example that fits in with your opinion.
However, I have learned something important today that luxury items are legitimate business expenses

Are others incapable of being as great as I?

I have loads of fun activities, challenges, interests and relaxing things in my life (including playing Golf). And not being allowed to drive has probably helped make me healthier.

I believe that being happy and satisfied is as much to do with that which is within as compared to that which is around an individual. It's about attitude. People can stop just following the world's way and work out the best way to give themselves and others (including those of the future) the fundamentals of a good life. Just because some people get those fundamentals via a popular conventional method does not mean that a certain individual can't have all that one needs by doing something different.

 

[PeterC]

It's easy. I just designed my life around not being allowed to drive. Got a property in a small town about 20 minutes walk from a good job.

As long as you are happy to move house whenever you change jobs or your employer decides to change location.

When I worked for a clearing bank each promotion meant a move to a different branch. As you could also be sent to a
branch temporarily to cover shortages I ended up working at 11 different locations over 9 years.

 

[RT4038]

Showing that going without a car is possible even in a place that isn't a major metropolis, contrary to common belief.

I don't think that it is a common belief per se but in any serious thought the common belief is that one's current lifestyle is generally not possible (or at the very least seriously inconvenient, awkward and expensive) without a car in such circumstances. Sure it is possible to organise your life around such constraints (with plenty of planning and being held hostage to timetables and transport companies/staff), and even pretend that it is fairly good, but there will be many of life's opportunities missed, however I accept that they will not be the priority of some.

 

[341o2]

According to some, we will all have to plan our lives, for a future where car ownership will either be prohibited or subject to some kind of Orwellian control, regarding when, where, and for how long you are permitted to drive. All these schemes, ULEZ, 15 minute cities, congestion charges, and so on are apparently designed to force people to give up driving, I have even heard of war being declared on the motorist which hasn't even started yet.

 

[PeterC]

I don't think that it is a common belief per se but in any serious thought the common belief is that one's current lifestyle is generally not possible (or at the very least seriously inconvenient, awkward and expensive) without a car in such circumstances. Sure it is possible to organise your life around such constraints (with plenty of planning and being held hostage to timetables and transport companies/staff), and even pretend that it is fairly good, but there will be many of life's opportunities missed, however I accept that they will not be the priority of some.

When I first married we lived in the Home Counties, lived close to a good rail service and both worked in Central London. This did mean that our social lives were more focused on London than where we lived. Even so we depended a lot on borrowing one of my parent's cars. Like many couples they had one each despite hardly ever wanting to use both at once.

 

[stuu]

According to some, we will all have to plan our lives, for a future where car ownership will either be prohibited or subject to some kind of Orwellian control, regarding when, where, and for how long you are permitted to drive. All these schemes, ULEZ, 15 minute cities, congestion charges, and so on are apparently designed to force people to give up driving, I have even heard of war being declared on the motorist which hasn't even started yet.

None of that is true though, so what some credulous idiots believe is neither here nor there

 

[jon81uk]

According to some, we will all have to plan our lives, for a future where car ownership will either be prohibited or subject to some kind of Orwellian control, regarding when, where, and for how long you are permitted to drive. All these schemes, ULEZ, 15 minute cities, congestion charges, and so on are apparently designed to force people to give up driving, I have even heard of war being declared on the motorist which hasn't even started yet.

Don't pay too much attention to the tin foil hat lot. Being able to walk to shops and the doctors etc is a good thing, not intended to stop people driving but reduce reliance on cars and of course teenagers who can't drive still need to go to the doctors and the shops and stuff.
Similarly with low traffic neighbourhoods, its not about not driving at all but just concentrating it onto longer drives and avoiding using smaller roads unless you actually live on them.

 

[RT4038]

When I first married we lived in the Home Counties, lived close to a good rail service and both worked in Central London. This did mean that our social lives were more focused on London than where we lived. Even so we depended a lot on borrowing one of my parent's cars. Like many couples they had one each despite hardly ever wanting to use both at once.

I have done similar, and indeed only have one car between wife and myself. Works most of the time with some inconvenience, and is a right ball ache sometimes. Obviously it all depends on your lifestyle, your location and that of your family, friends, work, shops, leisure pursuits etc etc. However, I shouldn't imagine that there are many existing car owners (who currently have the freedom of driving) who would find having no car other than a downright inconvenience, if not impossible, to live their current lives.

 

[birchesgreen]

Its quite easy, in cities and many towns, to live without a car... until you can't. Such as when a work shift changes and you can no longer manage with public transport, as happened to my wife lately... luckily muggings here doesn't mind getting up at 6am on a sunday to be an unpaid taxi driver.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Its quite easy, in cities and many towns, to live without a car... until you can't. Such as when a work shift changes and you can no longer manage with public transport, as happened to my wife lately... luckily muggings here doesn't mind getting up at 6am on a sunday to be an unpaid taxi driver.

To be fair, the reverse is also true. It is quite easy, nationwide (even with ULEZ's and the like), to live your life dependent on a car. Until you can't. Such as being diagnosed with certain illnesses / conditions etc.

The commonly held belief that having a car gives you freedom seems very strange to me, when it means you are totally and utterly dependent on being able to drive that car. As soon as you can't, then you are stuffed unless you live somewhere with good public transport or are lucky to have someone who can be your personal taxi driver. Especially when you start looking at older people, many of whom simply should not be driving anymore but essentially have to because of how dependent they are on the car because of where they live. That isn't freedom to me!

 

[RT4038]

To be fair, the reverse is also true. It is quite easy, nationwide (even with ULEZ's and the like), to live your life dependent on a car. Until you can't. Such as being diagnosed with certain illnesses / conditions etc.

The commonly held belief that having a car gives you freedom seems very strange to me, when it means you are totally and utterly dependent on being able to drive that car. As soon as you can't, then you are stuffed unless you live somewhere with good public transport or are lucky to have someone who can be your personal taxi driver. Especially when you start looking at older people, many of whom simply should not be driving anymore but essentially have to because of how dependent they are on the car because of where they live. That isn't freedom to me!

It seems rather a tortuous argument to restrict your freedom now, so you will not be affected if, in the future, your ability to drive is possibly restricted/removed? Hmmm....

 

[jon81uk]

It seems rather a tortuous argument to restrict your freedom now, so you will not be affected if, in the future, your ability to drive is possibly restricted/removed? Hmmm....

No one is talking about restricting freedom. Having decent public transport ensures if you cannot drive (for medical, financial, a breakdown or other reasons) then public transport ensures you can still get on with your life.

 

[RT4038]

No one is talking about restricting freedom. Having decent public transport ensures if you cannot drive (for medical, financial, a breakdown or other reasons) then public transport ensures you can still get on with your life.

Er.... the suggestion was the common held belief of the car giving you freedom is strange......

The commonly held belief that having a car gives you freedom seems very strange to me, when it means you are totally and utterly dependent on being able to drive that car. As soon as you can't, then you are stuffed unless you live somewhere with good public transport or are lucky to have someone who can be your personal taxi driver. Especially when you start looking at older people, many of whom simply should not be driving anymore but essentially have to because of how dependent they are on the car because of where they live. That isn't freedom to me!

But as public transport cannot practically replicate the freedom that driving a car is (no matter how good it is) , I think it quite reasonable to suggest that (in apart from edge cases) a car gives more freedom than using public transport. If you lose the ability to drive, then you lose that freedom and have to plan life much more and be beholden to public transport timetables, management and staff. Yes, there are some cases where having a car is less free than without, but most people are only peripherally affected by these. Not that this should preclude drivers from using public transport where appropriate.

The point I am making is that, of course, it is possible not to lose the freedom to drive/have a car if those circumstances befall you, by not driving/having a car in the first place, but this seems an unnecessary restriction of freedom to inflict on yourself.

 

[jon81uk]

Er.... the suggestion was the common held belief of the car giving you freedom is strange......

That is not the same as restricting freedom. The point is that someone might feel more free with a car, until their eyesight deteriotes and then they no longer have access it. Whereas if the public transport is good they have the freedom to use the car or the bus/train now and then in the future they can use the bus. It isn't an either/or, you can own a car and have access to great public transport!

 

[RT4038]

That is not the same as restricting freedom. The point is that someone might feel more free with a car, until their eyesight deteriotes and then they no longer have access it. Whereas if the public transport is good they have the freedom to use the car or the bus/train now and then in the future they can use the bus. It isn't an either/or, you can own a car and have access to great public transport!

Except that whilst a large proportion of people use their cars, funding great (in the eyes of a car driver) public transport is unlikely to be a high priority.

 

[jon81uk]

Except that whilst a large proportion of people use their cars, funding great (in the eyes of a car driver) public transport is unlikely to be a high priority.

Which is why a competent government should fund things that help "the greater good" and make public transport a high priority.

 

[birchesgreen]

Good public transport will help remove cars from the roads, drivers should welcome this as there will be less cars in their way.

 

[Speed43125]

Good public transport will help remove cars from the roads, drivers should welcome this as there will be less cars in their way.

In fairness, given the huge political difficulty in getting long term improvements to Bus or Rail in any particular locality (especially compared to building a bypass or widening a local road/motorway junction) that is it so surprising that few do support those initiatives?
I don't think it's such a difficult argument to state that dualing a road and thus doubling its capacity, or removing a particular bottleneck, are different to the induced demand of, say, a Texas freeway being widened from 10 to 12 lanes.

 

[341o2]

Good public transport will help remove cars from the roads, drivers should welcome this as there will be less cars in their way.

*fewer.
I don't believe the draconian measures regarding banning cars would ever take place, but there certainly have been attempts in that direction in Bournemouth, and the person responsible is Cllr Hadley. The council was successful in obtaining funds to promote Active Travel, which has been spent almost entirely on cycle lanes and redesigning road junctions designed to make life difficult for motorists and encourage them to use alternative means. When traffic lights failed on a roundabout, there was less congestion, for example.
Bournemouth, or rather Christchurch, also administered by the same council, must be the only town where the bypass ends in the town centre, and surely the only public airport in the UK with no regular public transport. Many prefer to travel by train to Southampton