Grand Central apply for Newcastle - Brighton direct

[357]

Application now made to ORR

https://news.arriva.co.uk/news/arri...ect-newcastle-and-brighton-via-london-gatwick
Arriva have posted the announcement on their website.

Arriva Group has today announced it is submitting an open access application to the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) to introduce a new direct rail service between Newcastle and Brighton, via London Gatwick, providing vital connectivity for underserved communities along the route.

Arriva’s application, to be formally notified to Network Rail today, makes use of existing under-utilised capacity on the network and includes proposals to introduce five trains per day in each direction, along what would be the first direct route between Newcastle and Brighton.

The service would be operated by Grand Central, Arriva’s established open access rail operator, and could be introduced from December 2026. It would deliver a direct connection from the Northeast and Midlands to London Gatwick and the South Coast, removing the need to interchange through London and providing passengers with a more efficient, affordable and sustainable travel option.

The plans are part of Arriva Group’s broader commitment to strengthening regional connectivity and making better use of available rail capacity. By opening up new travel corridors, Arriva is helping to connect more people to jobs, education and leisure opportunities – and to encourage a greater shift from private cars to public transport.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Application now made to ORR

For which route across the Thames are they applying.

 

[357]

For which route across the Thames are they applying.

Newcastle, Durham, Darlington, Northallerton, York, Doncaster, Sheffield, Derby, Burton-on-Trent, Birmingham New Street, Warwick Parkway, Banbury, Oxford, Reading, Wokingham, Guildford, Redhill, London Gatwick, Haywards Heath, Brighton

 

[alex17595]

Newcastle, Durham, Darlington, Northallerton, York, Doncaster, Sheffield, Derby, Burton-on-Trent, Birmingham New Street, Warwick Parkway, Banbury, Oxford, Reading, Wokingham, Guildford, Redhill, London Gatwick, Haywards Heath, Brighton

Surely this is going to fail the abstraction test. You can already do 75% of it on a single train.

 

[hexagon789]

For which route across the Thames are they applying.

They propose going the long way round:

From Newcastle, serving Durham, Darlington, Northallerton, York, Doncaster, Sheffield, Derby, Burton-on-Trent, Birmingham New Street, Warwick Parkway, Banbury, Oxford, Reading, Wokingham, Guildford, Redhill, London Gatwick, Haywards Heath then Brighton

 

[Farigiraf]

That route seems incredibly slow compared to Lumo/LNER + Thameslink - especially the crawl through the North Downs Line and reversal at Redhill. Sounds like a delayed April Fools joke.

 

[ainsworth74]

Application now made to ORR

Is there a link? The ORR website can be a right pain in the proverbial to navigate!

 

[Farigiraf]

Is there a link? The ORR website can be a right pain in the proverbial to navigate!

https://news.arriva.co.uk/news/arri...ect-newcastle-and-brighton-via-london-gatwick
Arriva have posted the announcement on their website.

Arriva Group has today announced it is submitting an open access application to the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) to introduce a new direct rail service between Newcastle and Brighton, via London Gatwick, providing vital connectivity for underserved communities along the route.

Arriva’s application, to be formally notified to Network Rail today, makes use of existing under-utilised capacity on the network and includes proposals to introduce five trains per day in each direction, along what would be the first direct route between Newcastle and Brighton.

The service would be operated by Grand Central, Arriva’s established open access rail operator, and could be introduced from December 2026. It would deliver a direct connection from the Northeast and Midlands to London Gatwick and the South Coast, removing the need to interchange through London and providing passengers with a more efficient, affordable and sustainable travel option.

The plans are part of Arriva Group’s broader commitment to strengthening regional connectivity and making better use of available rail capacity. By opening up new travel corridors, Arriva is helping to connect more people to jobs, education and leisure opportunities – and to encourage a greater shift from private cars to public transport.

They also refer to a future hybrid-battery train fleet (the 80x-es which they ordered) so most likely would want to use those, as well as 'luggage space for airport travellers', meaning they may design a different interior (if the application were to be accepted, and they ordered these extra trains on top of the current order, neither of which seem very likely.)

 

[357]

Is there a link? The ORR website can be a right pain in the proverbial to navigate!

Arriva Group submits open access rail application to connect Newcastle and Brighton, via London Gatwick

New services operated by Arriva’s Grand Central would introduce a direct rail connection between the Northeast and Midlands to London Gatwick and the South Coast. Making better use of available network capacity, the proposed route would connect underserved communities in the UK and enhance...

news.arriva.co.uk

 

[Class15]

Surely via Kensington Olympia would be more direct, and might fail the abstraction test slightly less embarrasingly?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there a link? The ORR website can be a right pain in the proverbial to navigate!

I just searched as well, it’s not on the ORR website yet. I’m not holding my breath on this one…

 

[Bletchleyite]

With Grand Central being Arriva, is this an attempt to keep the most profitable bits of XC on nationalisation?

 

[Class15]

I assume this is going to use the infinite pool of surplus Voyagers that all the Open Access applications are trying to use?

 

[alholmes]

Surely this is going to fail the abstraction test. You can already do 75% of it on a single train.

Agreed. Can’t see how this is going to create many new travel opportunities or attract people from other modes of transport.

Also, plenty of scope for services to be delayed here given the multiple complex junctions… will be an interesting one for Network Rail to timetable, if the application ever gets that far in the approval process.

 

[generalnerd]

Surely via Kensington Olympia would be more direct, and might fail the abstraction test slightly less embarrasingly?

That would make more sense, and you can serve London directly which would add more passengers

 

[Howardh]

Newcastle, Durham, Darlington, Northallerton, York, Doncaster, Sheffield, Derby, Burton-on-Trent, Birmingham New Street, Warwick Parkway, Banbury, Oxford, Reading, Wokingham, Guildford, Redhill, London Gatwick, Haywards Heath, Brighton

At first I thought "yes, I can go Manchester > Sheffield and pick it up there" and then continued reading the list - I can't see it being any better than Sheffield > London then Thameslink? Unless the issue is to join up towns along the way?

Are there no current direct trains from Oxford/Reading to Gatwick/Brighton? I don't think so - so that could be a useful addition as Reading is a bit of a hub though?

 

[lachlan]

At first I thought "yes, I can go Manchester > Sheffield and pick it up there" and then continued reading the list - I can't see it being any better than Sheffield > London then Thameslink? Unless the issue is to join up towns along the way?

Are there no current direct trains from Oxford/Reading to Gatwick/Brighton? I don't think so - so that could be a useful addition as Reading is a bit of a hub though?

Regular direct services from Reading to Gatwick, reversing at Redhill. It's not a fast service though as has many stops.

 

[FlyingPotato]

At first I thought "yes, I can go Manchester > Sheffield and pick it up there" and then continued reading the list - I can't see it being any better than Sheffield > London then Thameslink? Unless the issue is to join up towns along the way?

Are there no current direct trains from Oxford/Reading to Gatwick/Brighton? I don't think so - so that could be a useful addition as Reading is a bit of a hub though?

Direct reading to Gatwick train
But no train from Oxford to Gatwick or Reading to Brighton

I feel like the Birmingham -> South bits more interesting and useful to me and people I know especially Reading to Brighton and Brighton to Birmingham,
but the reading to Newcastle bit feels like a carbon copy of the current existing train

 

[The Middle]

Not sure where the unused capacity is York to Newcastle (especially post December 25) or around Sheffield and Birmingham New Street.

With Grand Central being Arriva, is this an attempt to keep the most profitable bits of XC on nationalisation?

It is just the private operators trying to keep their skin in the game post GBR. Hence the flurry of activity from First and Arriva in particular.

 

[JonathanH]

It would be better if the railway could better market the convenience of cross platform interchange at Stevenage for journeys between the north and Gatwick / Brighton.

I feel like the Birmingham -> South bits more interesting and useful to me and people I know especially Reading to Brighton and Brighton to Birmingham

Way, way, way too slow to build up significant custom, and the risk of missing a path on the North Downs Line was a real challenge when VXC went that way.

 

[Mikey C]

Oxford (once wired) to Brighton sounds like a useful route, but one more suited to a regular dual voltage EMU (387, 350 etc)

 

[JonathanH]

Oxford (once wired) to Brighton sounds like a useful route, but one more suited to a regular dual voltage EMU (387, 350 etc)

There are already four fast trains an hour from Oxford to Reading, plus the stoppers, and six trains an hour from Gatwick to Brighton, plus East / West Coastway. Overtaking on the North Downs Line is nigh on impossible, and it really is better to keep it self contained given the journey times.

it might be noted that South West Trains certainly had aspirations to run their Reading to Brighton via West Coastway services through to Oxford in the early days of privatisation, but the various lines are all busier now.

Which current services would be removed to run through trains between Oxford and Brighton? Would the people at Tilehurst, Pangbourne, Goring and Cholsey be happy with their services going to Brighton after Reading, instead of Paddington?

 

[swt_passenger]

Oxford (once wired) to Brighton sounds like a useful route, but one more suited to a regular dual voltage EMU (387, 350 etc)

There’s no capacity between Reading, Gatwick and Brighton. IIRC that is basically why XC were binned off the route nearly 20 years ago. Surely NR will still take the same stance?

 

[Howardh]

How long would the journey Birmingham - Brighton be, and would it leave from New St? If that were around 2 - 2.5 hrs it may be useful for those in the NW (ie Preston/Wigan/Manchester - Birmingham) to avoid London?

 

[FlyingPotato]

How long would the journey Birmingham - Brighton be, and would it leave from New St? If that were around 2 - 2.5 hrs it may be useful for those in the NW (ie Preston/Wigan/Manchester - Birmingham) to avoid London?

Probably more like 3-3.5hs based on current journey times

 

[Zomboid]

It's not really about end to end (no cross country journey is), it basically gets the Brighton service back onto the network.

I think they'd stand a better chance if they went from Oxford to Sheffield via Bedford, Leicester and maybe even the Erewash valley. That would probably pass the not primarily abstractive test.

 

[swt_passenger]

How long would the journey Birmingham - Brighton be, and would it leave from New St? If that were around 2 - 2.5 hrs it may be useful for those in the NW (ie Preston/Wigan/Manchester - Birmingham) to avoid London?

Nearer 4 hours if you add the 3 current sections together. New St to Reading’s around 1h 40m for a start…

 

[alholmes]

It would be better if the railway could better market the convenience of cross platform interchange at Stevenage for journeys between the north and Gatwick / Brighton.

Agreed, but nowadays it’s less about the marketing and more about the itinerary that is generated. Trains from Newcastle / Durham tend not to stop at Stevenage, which is mainly served by LNERs Leeds and Lincoln services, plus the York stoppers. Stevenage is a much easier interchange than switching between Kings X and St Pancras.

 

[John R]

I can't see how 5 trains a day will be an attractive proposition for air passengers, in comparison with faster and much more frequent services currently available. For anyone from north of Doncaster, also Sheffield and Derby, there's a direct connection in London to a 4tph service. OK, that might be a bit more difficult with lots of luggage, but the links will have lifts available.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's not really about end to end (no cross country journey is), it basically gets the Brighton service back onto the network.

Why is that such an important objective of threads started every few months? Maybe GC should actually go for Liverpool to Brighton, that‘ll get the XC bingo full house…