Grand Central Expansion

[158809]

there advertising for staff with driving experience of high speed trains at York

 

[CallySleeper]

It says 'high speed trains', note no capital lettering - 222s are high speed trains

I hate it that people can't see that 43s and mk3s, while named High Speed Trains, are different from Voyagers, Pendolinos, 82/90 and mk4 etc, which are also high speed trains!

 

[metrocammel]

It says 'high speed trains', note no capital lettering - 222s are high speed trains

I hate it that people can't see that 43s and mk3s, while named High Speed Trains, are different from Voyagers, Pendolinos, 82/90 and mk4 etc, which are also high speed trains!

Yes, but in that context I think it is refering to HST's, but it is "grammatically poor". If you were to take it literally, it could mean anything, however the term "high speed train" is so widely known in the industry as meaning a HST (ie, 43+mk3's+43) that it acceptable to just use the term as is, without using pro-nouns.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Come on though, if GC are to start by the December date (which IMO is unlikely, if not impossible, see as it's only about 3 months or so away), how on earth will they "magically" build a fleet of plastic multiple units? The anwser is, impossible. Getting a small HST fleet together by that time (and training staff, sorting maintenance out etc) is very unlikely, but just about possible if action is taken now. If nothing is noticable done in the next couple of weeks, I am very sceptical about the December start date. We'll see though.

And If GC did make some 222s from Bombardier, I'm sure VXC would have something to say about it, seeing 220/221s aren't exactly the biggest express trains in the world..

 

[class 313]

They would get 9 car 222s if they where smart so it would be 'big' express train

 

[Max]

They would get 9 car 222s if they where smart so it would be 'big' express train

9 car 222s? That would be absolutely mad! They would never fill them and they are appalling polluters in environmental terms. If they want to operate 9 car trains they would be far better off with re-engined HSTs in environmental terms at least, and debatably, in terms of comfort. I would say that HSTs are more comfortable than 222s although I'm not saying that I don't like 222s as I do. The 4 car ones at least!

 

[yorkie]

He also claimes that Grand Central have said that they have written to the DfT, and proposed (amongst other things) 140mph trains for the WCML by 2009/10 and that they would like the DfT to consider withdrawing station stops from VWC so that GC can serve more places.

Draw your own conclusions ladies and gentlemen!!!

Yes this is true, but with a bit of spin.

GC cannot ask the DfT to make West Coast trains call less at TV stations, but this is happening anyway regardless. GC are basically saying that they can call there to make up for those losses*, if the DfT requires. Basically they're saying that they are being flexible regarding stopping patterns.

* The Trent Valley stations will get a much better regular service between London, Rugby and stations to Crewe than at present, but will lose the odd train to destinations like Manchester, stations to Glasgow, Liverpool, etc.

 

[Humberside]

The only Trent Valley station that will see a major reduction in service in Nuneaton. Daytime it will go from a hourly Pendolino between Liverpool and Euston to an hourly Desiro (with more stops) between Crewe and Euston

 

[class 313]

Noooooo but wouldnt the GC service stop there aswell from Euston?

 

[class 313]

9 car 222s? That would be absolutely mad! They would never fill them and they are appalling polluters in environmental terms. If they want to operate 9 car trains they would be far better off with re-engined HSTs in environmental terms at least, and debatably, in terms of comfort. I would say that HSTs are more comfortable than 222s although I'm not saying that I don't like 222s as I do. The 4 car ones at least!

Hmmm They dont run on all 9 engines you know! 6 - 7 max!

Besides its advertised as a 9 car 222

 

[asopu10]

If there planning on doing this then they seem to be leaving it all very late. Also the pics on there site suggest they have the trains, do they? Or do they just have one, or is this just very clever computer trickery?

 

[CallySleeper]

Yes this is true, but with a bit of spin.

GC cannot ask the DfT to make West Coast trains call less at TV stations, but this is happening anyway regardless. GC are basically saying that they can call there to make up for those losses*, if the DfT requires. Basically they're saying that they are being flexible regarding stopping patterns.

* The Trent Valley stations will get a much better regular service between London, Rugby and stations to Crewe than at present, but will lose the odd train to destinations like Manchester, stations to Glasgow, Liverpool, etc.

What's going to happen to the level of service from 2009 onwards. With the new slow lines, it seems to me as if there is the definate potential for service improvements. Isn't there talk of an hourly London-Crewe semifast anyway operated by Central? so there may be no need for GC, or am I a bit behind here?

 

[class 313]

The site has photo-shoped a MML 222

 

[Tom]

Really? Well I never!

 

[Humberside]

Isn't there talk of an hourly London-Crewe semifast anyway operated by Central? so there may be no need for GC, or am I a bit behind here?

It was in the West Midlands franchise consultation document. Most stations will get a better service, particulalrly Atherstone. However Nuneaton will loose its daytime hourly Pendolino service and see it replaced by a slower semi fast service will lower quality stock

 

[class 313]

I dunno about that some people may say a desiro is better

 

[CallySleeper]

It was in the West Midlands franchise consultation document. Most stations will get a better service, particulalrly Atherstone. However Nuneaton will loose its daytime hourly Pendolino service and see it replaced by a slower semi fast service will lower quality stock

Yeah well that's like MKC and WJ isn't it? I've seen the same thing happen on parts of XC as well - Virgin are cutting out stops because the 'more local' operators are supposed to stop there. For example, instead of a Voyager, these places are being served more now by 170/156 stock.

 

[87015]

Virgin are cutting out stops because the 'more local' operators are supposed to stop there.

Main reason is NOT ENOUGH SEATS.

 

[CallySleeper]

Main reason is NOT ENOUGH SEATS.

True. Although I've found it's (personally) cutting down journey times - I try as much as possible to travel on the ones which don't stop.

And lowering the chance of the train getting overcrowded during my journey.

 

[asopu10]

Thats crap, surley they should provide more seats, not cut back services. Wheres the encourgment to use public transport there!

 

[Max]

Hmmm They dont run on all 9 engines you know! 6 - 7 max!

Besides its advertised as a 9 car 222

Well I and most other will I am sure be able to work out what is most environmentally friendly - 7 or 2 engines? You decide

And I fail to see your point, what is advertised as a 9 car 222? :confused:

 

[CallySleeper]

what is advertised as a 9 car 222? :confused:

The Sunderland service - or at least 4 cars.

 

[Tomnick]

Well I and most other will I am sure be able to work out what is most environmentally friendly - 7 or 2 engines? You decide

2 rather large engines, or 7 slightly smaller engines? Size does matter in this case .

 

[Max]

Still, I believe 9 car Meridians are simply gas guzzling monsters. If they were on the road, then I'm sure they would be in the top tax bracket!

 

[Tomnick]

I'd like to think so - they do make the MPG figures for the worst of the 4x4s look pretty good, I'm sure. They also have considerably more seats though .

 

[paul1609]

Well I and most other will I am sure be able to work out what is most environmentally friendly - 7 or 2 engines? You decide

And I fail to see your point, what is advertised as a 9 car 222? :confused:

The most enviromentally friendly way is to discourage travelling at all.
However assuming that the HST has valenta engines the meridian would almost certainly be more enviromentally friendly overall. Theres a good chance the Meridian would be more enviromentally friendly than a MTU engined HST too.

 

[paul1609]

I'd like to think so - they do make the MPG figures for the worst of the 4x4s look pretty good, I'm sure. They also have considerably more seats though .

I have a 4x4 pick up truck and that averages 28 to 30 mpg. I reckon thats on a par with many people carriers and large family cars. I agree that its silly to have such vehicles for school runs in Chelsea but people are getting carried away with the all 4 x4s are evil thing. If youre looking at discouraging me you should be banning most sports cars outright because many of them average about 20 mpg.

 

[Tomnick]

I have a 4x4 pick up truck and that averages 28 to 30 mpg. I reckon thats on a par with many people carriers and large family cars. I agree that its silly to have such vehicles for school runs in Chelsea but people are getting carried away with the all 4 x4s are evil thing. If youre looking at discouraging me you should be banning most sports cars outright because many of them average about 20 mpg.

Wasn't being entirely serious . Like you, we've got a 4x4 at home (it's actually a Renault Scenic RX4, so not a 'proper' one!) which is useful for shifting stuff around at home, particularly on our field, as well as towing the caravan. It averages 40-ish mpg, which is pretty good - but I'm certainly not against banning 4x4s, whether they're that fuel-efficient or not! I understand that many people have a genuine use for them (whether they go off-road or not) - it's those who use them just for the school run (even if said school run is only a few hundred yards). I agree that sports cars are worse 'offenders' - not only less fuel-efficient, but also more pointless!

 

[AlexS]

The Meridian engines are now illegal in new build trains due to environmental regulations.

Another problem however with Virgin services is that many people (myself included!) use them for short hops, filling the train for short periods. For example, using the overcrowded Bournemouth services from Winchester or Basingstoke, or using them between Birmingham New Street and Birmingham International, when there is a good range of slightly slower local trains.

 

[paul1609]

The Meridian engines are now illegal in new build trains due to environmental regulations.
.

Not sure where you got that one from the Cummins QSK 19 engines are pretty much state of the art and are used by most of the major trian builders including Siemens