Grand Central HST Stock Guard's Accommodation

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ryan125hst

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Forgive me if this has been answered before, but I was watching a video of a walkthrough of an EMR HST the other day. It is an Angel Trains set and I believe ex Grand Central. It has an area for bicycles on the right hand side as you enter the first Standard Class carriage in the formation (Coach A). This is instead of the usual guards van area as per most HST's.

It occurred to me that without the TGS, where is the Train Manager's office?

TGS - Trailer Guard Standard
 
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fgwrich

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Forgive me if this has been answered before, but I was watching a video of a walkthrough of an EMR HST the other day. It is an Angel Trains set and I believe ex Grand Central. It has an area for bicycles on the right hand side as you enter the first Standard Class carriage in the formation (Coach A). This is instead of the usual guards van area as per most HST's.

It occurred to me that without the TGS, where is the Train Manager's office?

TGS - Trailer Guard Standard

The Train Managers office would have been in the TRSB (404XX) vehicle instead, between the Buffet Counter and Saloon.

You can just about make out the staff office in that 402 at this point (the door just on the right hand side wall).

 

HamworthyGoods

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Interesting that they have kept the GC seat layout with First Class spacing and window alignment in Standard. Makes quite a difference.

It was pretty horrendous to try and work at the tables in standard in those coaches as they spaced the seats out but didn’t provide bigger tables so you needed super long arms!!
 

ryan125hst

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The Train Managers office would have been in the TRSB (404XX) vehicle instead, between the Buffet Counter and Saloon.

You can just about make out the staff office in that 402 at this point (the door just on the right hand side wall).

Did they have to do any modifications to this before using it as a guard's office? This was previously a staff compartment so presumably it needed a PA, brake and a desk fitting if it's anything like the usual TGS TM office?
 

43096

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Did they have to do any modifications to this before using it as a guard's office? This was previously a staff compartment so presumably it needed a PA, brake and a desk fitting if it's anything like the usual TGS TM office?
I'd be amazed if you've ever seen a brake in a TGS guard's office! There's a reason why they are Trailer Guard Standard and not Trailer Brake Standard.
 

HamworthyGoods

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Did they have to do any modifications to this before using it as a guard's office? This was previously a staff compartment so presumably it needed a PA, brake and a desk fitting if it's anything like the usual TGS TM office?

All the ‘crew bunks’ in HST Buffet Cars has PA handsets - there of course is also PA equipment next door in the buffet. A desk was also fitted in this from introduction. There’s no brake in a TGS just a ‘pass-com’ emergency stop.

On Great Western many of the Guards would operate out of the crew bunk as this meant they were located towards the centre of the train.
 

Helvellyn

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If InterCity had been able to carry out the second HST fleet refurbishment it is likely the TGS fleet would have been converted to Trailer Conductor Standard Disabled (TCSD) similar to prototype conversion 45084 (ex-TGS 44084), with the transverse Guard's office and luggage space replaced by a Conductor's office opposite a payphone and luggage stack, with an accessible toilet at the opposite end. The coach would have been marshalled adjacent the buffet car.
 

ryan125hst

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I'd be amazed if you've ever seen a brake in a TGS guard's office! There's a reason why they are Trailer Guard Standard and not Trailer Brake Standard.
It was the 'pass-com' style brake mentioned below I was referring to :lol:

Is there a brake gauge provided or is a pass-com handle all the guard has in TGS?

All the ‘crew bunks’ in HST Buffet Cars has PA handsets - there of course is also PA equipment next door in the buffet. A desk was also fitted in this from introduction. There’s no brake in a TGS just a ‘pass-com’ emergency stop.

On Great Western many of the Guards would operate out of the crew bunk as this meant they were located towards the centre of the train.

I didn't realise that it was common for guards to work out of the crew bunk on Great Western as they all had TGS's. Were they the exception or did it happen sometimes on the East Coast, Midland or CrossCountry routes too?

If InterCity had been able to carry out the second HST fleet refurbishment it is likely the TGS fleet would have been converted to Trailer Conductor Standard Disabled (TCSD) similar to prototype conversion 45084 (ex-TGS 44084), with the transverse Guard's office and luggage space replaced by a Conductor's office opposite a payphone and luggage stack, with an accessible toilet at the opposite end. The coach would have been marshalled adjacent the buffet car.

I can't say I've heard of the TCSD before. It seems it has long since been converted back to a TS so that probably explains why. I can't find any photos of it but I can find an internal layout. It looks like the accessible toilet was of the same (or at least similar) style to the smaller, older ones used on the now former EMR stock. I've also read that they were concerned the guard wasn't accessible at one end of the train so they wanted them more central, something that hasn't been carried out in the refurbishments since.

TS - Trailer Standard
 

HamworthyGoods

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I didn't realise that it was common for guards to work out of the crew bunk on Great Western as they all had TGS's. Were they the exception or did it happen sometimes on the East Coast, Midland or CrossCountry routes too?

I can’t quote for the other regions but was certainly commonplace on the Western.
 

wils180

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I didn't realise that it was common for guards to work out of the crew bunk on Great Western as they all had TGS's. Were they the exception or did it happen sometimes on the East Coast, Midland or CrossCountry routes too?
Tended to work out whichever was rearmost. In normal formation would work out of the buffet bunk leaving london and work out of TGS on way back in, good times!
 
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