Grand Central Kings Cross [KGX] - York [YRK] / Bradford [BDI]

[dk1]

But also meeting customer demand! Looking at the bigger passenger picture, it makes sense I guess?! BR would have run relief trains.

I always remember the relief trains BR ran in the 80s to supplement HSTs on the East coast. Usual result was a very poorly timed 47+8 mk2s which would depart Peterborough around 1/3 full whist a succesion of 125s that would all overtake it en-route where rammed.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

EMT also run from ST Pancras through to Scarborough during the summer, perhaps they'd complain about GC?

 

[junglejames]

EMT also run from ST Pancras through to Scarborough during the summer, perhaps they'd complain about GC?

Good point. Forgot about them.
GC should be providing the quicker journey time from London though, so EMTs summer services could be mainly aimed at those stations between London and Sheffield.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Good point. Forgot about them.
GC should be providing the quicker journey time from London though, so EMTs summer services could be mainly aimed at those stations between London and Sheffield.

I think EMT service is a service for the east midlands and south yorkshire but easier to just etend a london sheffield run.

Because the northern rail service from sheffield (2 hourly) is so long it takes longer than taking a stopping service to doncaster.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wow that is quite rare id imagine, two competing open access TOC's working together like that for the greater good of all passengers !! (if only regular TOC's did the same!!)

Anyone got a piccy of the two units together?

http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Picture of the Day index/Old_POD_Feb2011.html

look at 13th feb?

 

[WestCoast]

I tried to catch a GC service from York to Sunderland on the day when they were running as 2x180s with Hull Trains to Doncaster. The service was heavily delayed then cancelled.

I was told the reason was the 180s wouldn't talk to each other?!

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Wow that is quite rare id imagine, two competing open access TOC's working together like that for the greater good of all passengers !! (if only regular TOC's did the same!!)

Anyone got a piccy of the two units together?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF-NgwZKawY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jZZfVEfk78


I still think EMT would raise a few questions as to why GC want to run to Scarborough. But I would think if they ran it year-round as oppose to seasonly then EMT can't really oppose it.

 

[WestCoast]

Hopefully longer HST's will be good, the Sunderland trains are getting pretty damn busy!

Although there isn't really the demand and I don't mind 180s at all, I wouldn't mind seeing all services being HSTs across both the Bradford and Sunderland services!

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Although there isn't really the demand and I don't mind 180s at all, I wouldn't mind seeing all services being HSTs across both the Bradford and Sunderland services!

As far as I know the HST's aren't cleared right through to Bradford, unless this has changed?

But it'd definately look nice.

 

[WestCoast]

As far as I know the HST's aren't cleared right through to Bradford, unless this has changed?

I'm not too sure, but I heard one got as far as Wakefield? Perhaps for operational flexibility it would be wise to clear the HSTs for Bradford if possible?

 

[Aictos]

As far as I know the HST's aren't cleared right through to Bradford, unless this has changed?

But it'd definately look nice.

I believe it changed in December as the Grand Central HSTs now have SDO fitted to their doors although the crews aren't trained on them.

Also, HST sets are cleared by Network Rail to Bradford and the sets that have already been refurbished now have SDO. There are currently no plans to interchange HSTs with 180s on the West Riding due to the issues already discussed regarding crew training and maintenance, which is currently not possible as Crofton. Having said this the Bradford crews would dearly love to have HSTs on the West Riding route!!!

 

[Skimble19]

TBH EMT couldn't really complain if GC wanted to run to Scarborough.. EMT run a Summer Saturdays service (one train every saturday), don't think they're gonna be that fussed!

 

[GNERman]

with the "cockwork" timetable coming in, are there paths for more open access on the ecml???

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

with the "cockwork" timetable coming in, are there paths for more open access on the ecml???

'Clockwork' - post edit?

I think there's an hourly xx.00 slot from Kings Cross, but that won't leave many over the course of the day. Only possibility is running doubled up 180's Kings Cross - York and then going onwards to destinations from there.

 

[ainsworth74]

with the "cockwork" timetable coming in, are there paths for more open access on the ecml???

I was under the impression that there was either the same or less. Certainly the paths that exist aren't as good as they were, as I recall GC were up in arms about the fact that some of their Sunderland and Bradford services were having their journey times extended by 10-15 minutes or so.

 

[GNERman]

'Clockwork' - post edit?

I think there's an hourly xx.00 slot from Kings Cross, but that won't leave many over the course of the day. Only possibility is running doubled up 180's Kings Cross - York and then going onwards to destinations from there.

Did that on purpose, because having had a look at it it's STILL a mess, thus "cockwork" (or should that be "cock's-work")...

Coupling and Uncoupling is hated by Network Rail IIRC, but may have to be used more. From what I remember the 08.12 TPE from LDS, ex Liverpool Lime Street, splits at York to form a Scarborough and Newcastle, and I can't think of any more near me...

 

[wensley]

I was told the reason was the 180s wouldn't talk to each other?!

This is one of the problems with the 180s, they have a tendency of being a bit temperamental where the computers/electronics are concerned and just one coupling refusing to "talk" will screw up the diagramming and end up with, as was the case this time, delays to passengers.

I believe it changed in December as the Grand Central HSTs now have SDO fitted to their doors although the crews aren't trained on them.

BDI crews still not trained on slam-door stock and, following a chance conversation with someone concerned with this, the cost of training staff on slam doors could make it prohibitive. Also the drivers would need to learn the traction, which is even more expensive than on-train staff. At present only a couple of the Bradford drivers sign HSTs and this will soon be reduced with one transferring North from what I gathered. Therefore, for the time being cost may be the biggest factor in preventing HSTs operating to Bradford.

In addition the Mk3 version of SDO has certain limitations in the way it can be used by staff (eg. having to return to the same panel for dispatch) and this was, I believe, another reason why there is hesitance on the part of GC to introduce them to the Bradford route.