Grand Central missed connection - do you have to wait 4 hours?

[AnkleBoots]

There is a cheap Advance ticket Sheffield - Doncaster - London on weekdays.

Arriving Doncaster 11:55 with a 9 minute connection to the 12:04 Grand Central service.

After that there is no Grand Central service before 16:22 - so if you miss the 12:04 do you have to wait 4 hours?

 

[gray1404]

How cheap is the ticket on your date of travel? I assume its a XC and GC Advance. I've selected some dates at random and I am getting some LNER and Connections for about £4 more. This might be a safer bet as with the latter you would be entitled to use the next LNER service in the event of missing the connection.

 

[AnkleBoots]

Thanks. I've seen it for as a little as £17.50 and it's Northern and Grand Central.

Does your answer mean that effectively it would be a 4 hour wait?

 

[yorkie]

There is a cheap Advance ticket Sheffield - Doncaster - London on weekdays.

Arriving Doncaster 11:55 with a 9 minute connection to the 12:04 Grand Central service.

After that there is no Grand Central service before 16:22 - so if you miss the 12:04 do you have to wait 4 hours?

I think that would be considered an unreasonable length of time to wait. When GC passengers face a lengthy delay it is customary for them to be advised to use LNER, though sometimes LNER can be very restrictive as to which train that is (e.g. an ex-Leeds/York stopper). It's certainly not unknown for GC passengers to get on a train I've been on from Doncaster. Some LNER Guards are really welcoming and encouraging those with 1st class GC tickets to sit in matching accommodation on LNER. It's not in LNER's interests to disallow this as all it would do is turn people against the company.

 

[AnkleBoots]

Example £17.50 for this on 4 Dec

Journey summary

• Duration 2h 19m
• 1 change

11:25
Sheffield
Northern
30 minutes
11:55
Doncaster
12:04
Doncaster
Grand Central Railway
1 hour 40 minutes
13:44
London Kings Cross

 

[yorkie]

How crucial is your arrival time into KGX?

If it was me, I'd be going for it.

Edit: actually even cheaper fares are available... see attached

If you want to allow extra time for the connection, you can specify additional interchange time at DON, eg. the following is only £15 with 30mins to make the connection:

Sheffield 1125
Doncaster 1155

Doncaster 1225
London Kings Cross 1423


Or for £19.32 you can get the 1110 TPE connecting into the aforementioned GC at Doncaster (29 min connection); that's £1.82 for extra interchange time, if interchange time is important to you, it may be worth it (even more so if you prefer travelling on TPE over Northern!)

 

[AnkleBoots]

How crucial is your arrival time into KGX?

Or for £19.32 you can get the 1110 TPE connecting into the aforementioned GC at Doncaster (29 min connection); that's £1.82 for extra interchange time, if interchange time is important to you, it may be worth it (even more so if you prefer travelling on TPE over Northern!)

Thank you! Am very flexible on that day.
I am more than happy with a tight 9 minute connection if there's little chance of having to wait 4 hours.
The Northern trains on the Sheffield - Bridlington route are quite plush I think, better than TPE maybe?!

 

[47271]

Am I missing something, or is Northern bothered which service you use to connect onto GC, their services don't have reservations? As far as they're concerned the ticket is simply between two points.

I regularly use them between Liverpool and Wigan, or Preston, to connect on to Virgin or Transpennine services to Scotland using an Advance. If I'm ready to go, I go up to an hour early and it's never been questioned. I do the same on Scotrail between Glasgow and Edinburgh if I'm connecting onto LNER.

 

[gray1404]

Some of the Northern services have counted place reservations and the one arriving at 11.55 does.

 

[47271]

Some of the Northern services have counted place reservations and the one arriving at 11.55 does.

Ok, fair enough. I could've been caught by that - it would never have occurred to me to bother about which Northern service I travel on, oops!

So, as an aside, excepting the encouragement of travel outside the peaks, what's the point of a counted place reservation? Why would they want to stop me travelling an hour earlier in the middle of the day and potentially missing my connection?

 

[gray1404]

Counted place reservations allow an operator that doesn't offer seat reservations to offer Advance tickets on those services. For example, WMT don't offer seat reservations but counted places allow them to offer advance fares say between Liverpool and Birmingham. Northern have started offering their own Advance fares too between certain stations.

The flip side to this of course is when making a longer journey, you can end up getting tied to a certain local service, to connect with the long distance train.

 

[ivorytoast28]

Having made this journey a several times in the past I only book the Grand central/LNER in advance and then you can travel on an earlier Northern train to give you more time. The Grand central 12:04 on 04/12/19 is currently £12 from Doncaster to London and then the northern anytime fare is £3.80 (or £2.50 if you book onto a specific train that gives a sensible connection time). Usually advance fares are available even on the day via Northern's app, I regularly intend to just buy the off-peak ticket but buy an advance as I'm walking into the station 5 mins before it leaves so I don't really see the point in tying yourself to the specific time to potentially save £1.30

 

[gray1404]

Isn't there a 15 minute before departure cut off point for Northern on the day Advances?

If the OP wants more I time to change trains by getting the train before, some booking engines will allow this, meanwhile still selling a through ticket and itinerary.

 

[richardderby]

yes, just book the £12 GC advance from Donny, and get a cheap Northern ticket from Sunny Sheffield for £2 or £3, its cheaper and gives you more options..

 

[yorkie]

You can specify calling at: doncaster and add additional interchange minutes
You can also specify NT + GC only if you wish to exclude other operators from the results.
I recommend booking it as one journey (regardless of number of actual tickets) with a through itinerary.

 

[AnkleBoots]

Thank you.

Can you also specify for a single journey (either splitting or not splitting tickets):

Leg 1 - Non-specific train
Leg 2 - Advance

 

[yorkie]

Thank you.

Can you also specify for a single journey (either splitting or not splitting tickets):

Leg 1 - Non-specific train
Leg 2 - Advance

Sadly not, however if you specify via: Rotherham Central, I believe the vast majority of trains that go via RMC are non-reserveable, so it will have the same effect.

 

[some bloke]

There's also the Megatrain option, at the moment around £15 upwards depending on time of day:

https://uk.megabus.com/journey-plan...aCount=0&totalPassengers=1&wheelchairSeated=0

 

[brompton rail]

Be aware that the xx.25 Northern Sheffield to Hull and the Yorkshire Coast line (class 170) trains are often delayed on departure from Sheffield, perhaps due to XC departure at xx.21. Arrivals at Doncaster around xx.05/08 are possible. Just saying!

 

[AnkleBoots]

Sadly not, however if you specify via: Rotherham Central, I believe the vast majority of trains that go via RMC are non-reserveable, so it will have the same effect.

Is it still consensus that a &Connections ticket will allow travel on reservable trains even if not strictly permitted?

 

[AnkleBoots]

There's also the Megatrain option, at the moment around £15 upwards depending on time of day:

https://uk.megabus.com/journey-plan...aCount=0&totalPassengers=1&wheelchairSeated=0

Thank you, I didn't know it was that cheap. Do you know if the quotas are the same from Chesterfield ie if the cheapest tier sells out from Sheffield, can it still be available from Chesterfield?

 

[AnkleBoots]

Be aware that the xx.25 Northern Sheffield to Hull and the Yorkshire Coast line (class 170) trains are often delayed on departure from Sheffield, perhaps due to XC departure at xx.21. Arrivals at Doncaster around xx.05/08 are possible. Just saying!

Thank you, useful to know. I'd rather travel on LNER anyway, so if I can be fairly confident of that being allowed if I miss the Grand Central, then so much the better.

 

[some bloke]

Thank you, I didn't know it was that cheap. Do you know if the quotas are the same from Chesterfield ie if the cheapest tier sells out from Sheffield, can it still be available from Chesterfield?

It used to be reasonably possible to get £1 tickets by looking at midnight for the right day and being quick!

I have the impression from a couple of years ago that the cheapest tier would vanish if sold out from the other station.

Tip for anyone interested: It's easier to see available Megatrain dates for Sheffield by looking at dates available for Chesterfield, because Chesterfield has no Megabus service.

The around £15 I quoted above is for that day, 4 Dec, rather than the minimum possible. I can see some Nottingham-London tickets at around £7 to £10.

 

[brompton rail]

From 15 December the connecting Northern service will be 11.05 (Sheffield -Adwick stopper, nodding donkey!) arriving Doncaster 11.45.