Grand central service disappeared, mandatory reservation and what to do

[mikeg]

Hi folks,
I have noticed that my trip to work has disappeared, I followed grand central's advice and booked when they said 'book now'. It was the 0755 departure from Northallerton to York on Xmas eve, was shewn as terminating at York so thought it would be a good one to travel on. Fast forward a week and a bit and it's vanished. I still have the reservation, presumably they have to find some way of honouring this as per the national rail conditions of travel? Given that the later service is fully booked should I be allowed to invoke the condition that says any operator in a position to help must do so and travel on TPE? Of course I will contact gc first to see if they are able to help. Just need to get to work and would have helped had they not lied about the service existing.

Edit:condition 28.2 was the one I was thinking of.

 

[mike57]

Without getting involved in the specifics of your case I suspect that sudden imposition of 'teir 4' on Saturday may have had a bearing on it. Given that travel to or from London is restricted I imagine Hull trains and Grand Central may be shutting up shop again. I know your train was due to terminate at York, but they may have decided to completely suspend operations again.

 

[Trogladyte]

Surprised Grand Central can still afford to operate any trains.

 

[Roger100]

Well, the 1A60 service from Sunderland this morning has passed York and is still heading south. So some GC trains are running.

 

[Crossover]

Looking at RTT, it is now in as a planned cancellation (along with a few LNER services, including The Flying Scotsman). Nothing on GC's Facebook about it that I can see, though

 

[CommuterPigeon]

Pre-Covid, that train used to have a fairly healthy commuter loading into York in a morning. It could be they tried to run it as far as York to see how loadings were but if they weren't great it's probably quite an expensive way of moving fresh air from the North East to York. Pretty poor if they cancelled it without notifying passengers though.

 

[infobleep]

If you use Twitter I would be tempted to tweet them and ask them where you can find information on the cancellation of the 07:55 as you can't find anything on their Web Site. Or alternatively ask them what can you do and then polietly ask them to update the Web Site if information on it.

 

[ALEMASTER]

Looks like they've retimed it to 0905 and running as a 10 car

Realtime Trains - 1A61 0753 Sunderland to Peterborough

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Travelling at Christmas | Grand Central Rail

Travelling with Grand Central at Christmas and New Year – what you need to know Christmas is creeping up on us again! We're looking forward to gathering around the dinner table, heading out to festive markets and visiting friends and family again!

www.grandcentralrail.com

 

[mikeg]

Hmm the 1A60 to KGX existed when I booked the ticket. The service at the same time but terminating at YRK was in addition. Going to phone them soon

So have just been on the phone to GC. Was offered travel on a service about 1pm, obviously unsuitable for work. Have been advised to book again and claim a refund off the retailer (LNER). The problem is I will more than likely need to not abandon the return journey. Would I still be able to get a full or pro rata refund for the outward, abandoned journey if I were to make the return journey?

 

[ALEMASTER]

Hmm the 1A60 to KGX existed when I booked the ticket. The service at the same time but terminating at YRK was in addition. Going to phone them soon

So have just been on the phone to GC. Was offered travel on a service about 1pm, obviously unsuitable for work. Have been advised to book again and claim a refund off the retailer (LNER). The problem is I will more than likely need to not abandon the return journey. Would I still be able to get a full or pro rata refund for the outward, abandoned journey if I were to make the return journey?

I'd suggest phoning LNER as they are the ticket agent you used. I'm assuming you have the Anytime Return route Grand Central Only, I think the two options would either be a full refund on that ticket (train cancelled) and buy a new return ticket for the revised journey, alternatively pay the excess fare to upgrade from Grand Central Only to Any Permitted.

 

[yorkie]

You can either obtain a full refund from the retailer (if you decide not to travel)

Or you can travel on an appropriate alternative service - if there is one - at the closest time to departure, either the train before or after (which is your choice); any other provider should honour the ticket under the NRCoT, in my opinion.

However there is the risk that another provider may claim that you should travel many hours later; I would not see that as reasonable but I am not aware this has ever been tested in the courts.

 

[mikeg]

Was offered an alternative service at 1pmish and he raised his voice slightly at me when I reminded him of NRCoT 28.2.... He was unwilling to budge in any other reespect. In live chat with LNER seeing if i can get a refund, whilst retaining the return, which wouldn't leave me too much out of pocket.

Or you can travel on an appropriate alternative service - if there is one - at the closest time to departure, either the train before or after (which is your choice); any other provider should honour the ticket under the NRCoT, in my opinion.

The customer service chap seemed to think the 13xx train was an appropriate alternative service.

In the end I've just purchased a TPE only CDR and had the GC only return refunded by LNER. I however will be complaining further to GC about thinking a service past 1pm is a suitable substitute for a service at 0755. To be fair to the guy on the phone, although it was unprofessional to raise his voice he'd clearly had a bad day as I'm sure i would have in said situation and i don't think GC's internal procedures are up to scratch on this one. I shall reply with constructive criticism in this respect too as well ask asking politely if they'll shoulder the difference they've left me out of pocket by.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd suggest phoning LNER as they are the ticket agent you used. I'm assuming you have the Anytime Return route Grand Central Only, I think the two options would either be a full refund on that ticket (train cancelled) and buy a new return ticket for the revised journey, alternatively pay the excess fare to upgrade from Grand Central Only to Any Permitted.

You can't excess a TOC specific ticket to a non-TOC-specific one, but because of the cancellation a full refund and rebook is basically the same thing.

 

[class 9]

Was offered an alternative service at 1pmish and he raised his voice slightly at me when I reminded him of NRCoT 28.2.... He was unwilling to budge in any other reespect. In live chat with LNER seeing if i can get a refund, whilst retaining the return, which wouldn't leave me too much out of pocket.


The customer service chap seemed to think the 13xx train was an appropriate alternative service.

In the end I've just purchased a TPE only CDR and had the GC only return refunded by LNER. I however will be complaining further to GC about thinking a service past 1pm is a suitable substitute for a service at 0755. To be fair to the guy on the phone, although it was unprofessional to raise his voice he'd clearly had a bad day as I'm sure i would have in said situation and i don't think GC's internal procedures are up to scratch on this one. I shall reply with constructive criticism in this respect too as well ask asking politely if they'll shoulder the difference they've left me out of pocket by.

Although I wouldn't excuse a call centre operator for raising his voice to you, I would say quoting individual clauses of the CoC, you come across as a bit of a smart arse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Although I wouldn't excuse a call centre operator for raising his voice to you, I would say quoting individual clauses of the CoC, you come across as a bit of a smart arse.

One is entitled to quote one's legal rights if they are not being fulfilled. The Sale of Goods Act and its successors is one that comes in handy when retailers are not behaving as they must do by law.

And no, there are indeed no circumstances under which a call centre agent should be rude or raise their voice. Even if the passenger is being abusive (which they clearly were not here), they should simply calmly state that because of the abuse they must terminate the call, then if the abuse does not stop then do so. Unlike an in-person situation they are never in a position where they could be physically harmed, they always have an easy and immediate way out of such a situation.

 

[class 9]

But the condition he quoted is about disruption, whereas what's happened here is seemingly a planned cancellation, hence my comment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But the condition he quoted is about disruption, whereas what's happened here is seemingly a planned cancellation, hence my comment.

To which the correct answer is not to get angry, but instead to explain why that doesn't apply in the situation, if indeed it doesn't, and offer the thing that does (a fee-free refund absolutely does, because a cancellation of the intended train is what defines entitlement to that, even if that cancellation causes no delay to the overall journey at all).

 

[class 9]

I'm not defending the call centre operator.

 

[Watershed]

But the condition he quoted is about disruption, whereas what's happened here is seemingly a planned cancellation, hence my comment.

Your journey is going to be rather severely disrupted if your intended train does not run and you arrive 5 hours later as a result.

There isn't some magic phrase the industry can cite to legitimise its riding roughshod over passengers' rights. Planned or otherwise, any reasonable person booked to travel on that train is going to consider its absence a cancellation.

 

[Mag_seven]

I would say quoting individual clauses of the CoC, you come across as a bit of a smart arse.

I suggest the problem is that when it comes to consumer rights not enough of us are "smart arses".

 

[class 9]

Your journey is going to be rather severely disrupted if your intended train does not run and you arrive 5 hours later as a result.

There isn't some magic phrase the industry can cite to legitimise its riding roughshod over passengers' rights. Planned or otherwise, any reasonable person booked to travel on that train is going to consider its absence a cancellation.

It was one train cancelled, he was commuting Northallerton to York, which has a half hourly TPE service, so he wasn't going to be stranded 5 hours.

 

[Watershed]

It was one train cancelled, he was commuting Northallerton to York, which has a half hourly TPE service, so he wasn't going to be stranded 5 hours.

He could have been, if he kept to the TOC restriction on his ticket.

Why should passengers have to pay extra to arrive at something approaching their booked arrival time?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suggest the problem is that when it comes to consumer rights not enough of us are "smart arses".

Very true; companies are far too often able to "pull a fast one" on people because they don't know their rights.

Arriva are a large multinational company who could I'm sure have afforded to buy the OP a ticket on a relevant LNER service.