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Could Grand Union Trains proposed London Euston to Stirling service be viable?

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Jorge Da Silva

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https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/41688/grand-union-trains-notification-form.pdf

Another service from Grand Union Trains:

A daily service of 3 or 4 trains between Stirling and London Euston calling at Larbert – Greenfaulds - - Whifflet – Motherwell – Lockerbie – Carlisle – Preston – Crewe – Nuneaton and Milton Keynes.

Depending on final pathing, first up service would depart at around 0530, then operate roughly every 3 – 4 hours (depending on number operated) with last up service around 1630. First down service at around 0833 then operate roughly every 3 – 4 hours (depending on number operated) with last down service around 1638.

Class 91 locomotive, up to 9 coaches and 1 DVT in each train set

Any thoughts?
 
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_toommm_

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I suspect it may struggle with the abstraction test around Carlisle and Crewe.

Aren't Grand Union the ones who keep submitting applications for all across the country?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Presumably they are looking at the same hourly path south of Preston used by their Blackpool services (which still haven't really been firmed up yet).
It looks as though New Virgin (not the franchise) will also want a path for their proposed Liverpool services.
I doubt there are 2 hourly paths available for 110mph services.
Stirling was apparently a proposal for the abortive 2012 franchise (when wired, which is only now available).
This was notably missing from the First Trenitalia announcement recently.
I'd agree about problems over revenue abstraction at Carlisle, Preston and Crewe, which is probably the main aim of the proposal.
It will all have to be stirred round with future HS2 services also in the mix.
 

Jorge Da Silva

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Presumably they are looking at the same hourly path south of Preston used by their Blackpool services (which still haven't really been firmed up yet).
It looks as though New Virgin (not the franchise) will also want a path for their proposed Liverpool services.
I doubt there are 2 hourly paths available for 110mph services.
Stirling was apparently a proposal for the abortive 2012 franchise (when wired, which is only now available).
This was notably missing from the First Trenitalia announcement recently.
I'd agree about problems over revenue abstraction at Carlisle, Preston and Crewe, which is probably the main aim of the proposal.
It will all have to be stirred round with future HS2 services also in the mix.

Blackpool coming Spring 2020. And First Group’s plans for a second hourly service to Liverpool has probably killed Virgin’s plans off. Stirling may have some new market but again First Groups plans to increase stops at Motherwell and Milton Keynes may have meant some significant abstraction.
 

Jorge Da Silva

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Nice!

Shame a 9 coach service is too long to call at Sunny-D. It would be amazing to stand at Euston and wait for the Dunblane Train.

Do you actually think it’s going to happen.

Tbh it has more chance than the Great Western application but would this harm LNER and FirstGroup’s West Coast service at all? The latter most certainly but LNER will object because of abstraction.
 

Glenn1969

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Not sure how LNER can object- their Glasgow service was cut back to one or two per day with Edinburgh- Glasgow largely left to XC from the East Coasy route
 

mcmad

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Will need SDO adding as Larbert, Greenfaulds and whifflet are all to short for a 9 car mk4 set.
 

route:oxford

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Do you actually think it’s going to happen.

I'd certainly *like* it to happen. With a tight E-W connection at MK, that's sounding like under 5 hours to Stirling. Potentially 4h25m from MK to Stirling?

Sunny-D? Do you mean Coatbridge Central?

Coatbridge & Airdrie - don't they have more sunbeds per head than anywhere else in the world?

Blatant ORCATS raid. Again.

I just don't see the Orcats issue between Stirling and Carlisle
 

InOban

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I would have thought that there would be a significant demand for travel from the growing population in central Scotland to places on the WCML.
BTW, about 50 years ago the 12.00 from Glasgow was joined at Carstairs by a portion from Perth - the only train to call at Coatbridge Sunnyside, I think.
 

47271

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Suits me for a transfer off Highland Main Line services at Stirling, a lot easier than messing around at Edinburgh or Glasgow and probably with some good prices. I hope it happens, but the thing will be virtually empty north of Carlisle.

Do I think that it'll happen? Nope.
 

Bald Rick

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I would have thought that there would be a significant demand for travel from the growing population in central Scotland to places on the WCML.
BTW, about 50 years ago the 12.00 from Glasgow was joined at Carstairs by a portion from Perth - the only train to call at Coatbridge Sunnyside, I think.

The TPE services are hardly full to bursting - every 2 hours from by far the largest two traffic generators in Scotland. I can’t see how Stirling / Lambert etc would generate more than a half a coach full every 4 hours.
 

Bald Rick

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Would it not get busy between Motherwell and London. There is a need for extra services from Scotland and London?

In my time doing passenger surveys on the Anglo Scots, Motherwell accounted for about 5% of Anglo-Scots tickets on the WCML, and a negligible number on the ECML.
 
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