Grand Union Trains Plans to run from London to Cardiff

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Jorge Da Silva, 5 Apr 2019.

  1. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,375
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pd...c-equilibrium-test-oa-form-gut-2019-03-27.pdf

    Grand Union Trains has proposed an Hourly service from London Paddington to Cardiff Central calling at Bristol Parkway, Severn Tunnel Junction, Newport and Cardiff Central. It would leave London at 35 minutes past the hour.

    They would use 9-car class 91 starting from December 2020.

    Any thoughts?
     
    Last edited: 5 Apr 2019
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

    Messages:
    9,160
    Joined:
    15 Apr 2008
    Standard Ian Yeowart, expect it to drag on for a couple of years and then die.
     
  4. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

    Messages:
    22,069
    Joined:
    12 Oct 2010
    Location:
    Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
    ain't gonna happen.

    PS Surely Grand Union trains should run from Paddington to Birmingham ;)
     
  5. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,375
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    What has given you that idea?? It’s not like he has had applications rejected before is it? :lol:
     
  6. MatthewRead

    MatthewRead On Moderation

    Messages:
    1,313
    Joined:
    21 Nov 2014
    I thought the 91's and Mark 4's had already been snapped up by TFW and Grand North Western for their new London-Blackpool service.
     
  7. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

    Messages:
    12,006
    Joined:
    13 May 2008
    File under "not going to happen".

    if they can achieve a 15 minute turnaround (otherwise they'll occupy a platform for 75 minutes, or need to shunt out and back in) then an 4 hour round trip hourly needs four trains in service, so not much stock required (say a fleet of six trains? except they'll try to go for five and be beset by reliability issues)
     
  8. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

    Messages:
    22,069
    Joined:
    12 Oct 2010
    Location:
    Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
    Surely rolling stock/cost of rolling stock wont be an issue as many of the 91's will be off lease soon. More of a problem will be pathing................
     
  9. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    41,239
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    As in 91+Mk4?
     
  10. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,375
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    Seems like it.
     
  11. eastwestdivide

    eastwestdivide Established Member

    Messages:
    1,757
    Joined:
    17 Aug 2009
    Possibly a reference to the Grand Union Canal
     
  12. gordonthemoron

    gordonthemoron Established Member

    Messages:
    5,968
    Joined:
    4 Sep 2006
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    will the knitting be up by then? Including Severn Tunnel
     
  13. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,956
    Joined:
    18 Aug 2013
    Location:
    WIM/PBO
    Yes. The wiring to Cardiff Central should be complete by the end of 2019. Wires are now starting to go up in Wales too; the Easter Blockade & following weekend this month between Bristol Parkway and Newport will almost certainly see some more wires up in the STJ area.
     
  14. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

    Messages:
    12,006
    Joined:
    13 May 2008
    but they will absolutely try to keep costs to a minimum.
     
  15. Envoy

    Envoy Established Member

    Messages:
    1,248
    Joined:
    29 Aug 2014
    Excellent idea - nothing like having competition rather than one company having full control of a route.
     
  16. Mag_seven

    Mag_seven Established Member

    Messages:
    4,997
    Joined:
    1 Sep 2014
    Location:
    here to eternity
    What a miserable lot you are. ;)
     
  17. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,956
    Joined:
    18 Aug 2013
    Location:
    WIM/PBO
    I agree, a bit of innovation and competition is what the industry needs - and, I'm quite optimistic about the plans too. Maintenance of the Mk4s could be easy enough at Canton.
     
  18. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    41,239
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    What's innovative about running conventional LHCS on an hourly service from London to Cardiff? It's just revenue abstraction.
     
  19. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,956
    Joined:
    18 Aug 2013
    Location:
    WIM/PBO
    Of course there is that, but it could allow GWR's IETs to be strengthened elsewhere.
     
  20. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,375
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    How could that happen when they are not replacing the GWR service they are rivaling or as I would say abstracting revenue
     
  21. Envoy

    Envoy Established Member

    Messages:
    1,248
    Joined:
    29 Aug 2014
    If they can reduce the prices, it could attract new customers and help clear the M4 of traffic. It would be good for tourism at places served by the route as lower prices would induce people to make journeys they might otherwise not have made. I know of people who travel with National Express or Megabus on this route because they look at the rail fares and then just rule out the rail option due to the prices. (Some don’t know that you have to pre-book a specific train around 11 weeks in advance in order to get a significantly lower price - which is not a user friendly system).
     
  22. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

    Messages:
    20,411
    Joined:
    7 Apr 2010
    You seriously believe the DfT would happily reduce GWR’s service level commitment to make room for an OA operator to abstract revenue from the franchise, and affect the IEP finances?
     
  23. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

    Messages:
    7,278
    Joined:
    24 Feb 2007
    Location:
    Redcar
    They are not in this to work with GWR or vice versa.
     
  24. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,956
    Joined:
    18 Aug 2013
    Location:
    WIM/PBO
    Nor they are. No idea why that idea came into my head in the first place other than wishful thinking.
     
  25. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

    Messages:
    2,425
    Joined:
    29 May 2011
    If they can get a cheaper price using National Express or Megabus and are happy to take the longer journey time, why shouldn't they continue doing so?

    How would you expect an open access operator to be able to charge lower prices if they are subject to the same costs? They might be able to only run services at 'profitable' times but otherwise have the same basic costs.
     
  26. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    41,239
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    GWR relies on IC income to cross-subsidise the regional services to some extent. That's a benefit of one big franchise (not to mention connectivity). The OA operator will abstract that revenue.

    It also offers somewhat of a Hobson's choice - a Class 800 which is a good train with terrible seats, or Mk4s which are a bad train with good seats. :)
     
  27. Envoy

    Envoy Established Member

    Messages:
    1,248
    Joined:
    29 Aug 2014
    Well, it seems to be working in France & Italy where there are competing companies operating high speed trains at lower fares. However, the French version (www.ouigo.com) is rather like the budget airlines - with all the nit-picking baggage allowances. The Italian version seems to be better and you can read about what the Man in Seat 61 has to say about it here:>
    https://www.seat61.com/italo.htm
     
  28. 43096

    43096 Established Member

    Messages:
    5,306
    Joined:
    23 Nov 2015
    Certainly likes keeping the ORR employed, doesn’t he?
     
  29. 30907

    30907 Established Member

    Messages:
    6,932
    Joined:
    30 Sep 2012
    Location:
    Airedale
    And is wholly part of SNCF - almost as if they were getting their retaliation in first before open access finally gets allowed :)
     
  30. Suraggu

    Suraggu Member

    Messages:
    840
    Joined:
    23 Oct 2013
    Location:
    The Far North
    It will not happen for varying reason but summed up in a few points.
    1) Bar Severn Tunnel Jct the entire service is revenue abstractive.
    2) Class 91 + 9 Mk.4 +DVT will not match future IET timetable thanks to IET's superior acceleration.
    3) Very slim picking path wise between Bristol Parkway to London Paddington once the full IET timetable has been implemented.
     
  31. Essexman

    Essexman Established Member

    Messages:
    1,019
    Joined:
    15 Mar 2011
    Surely they would need to offer more than GWR do - and not just lower cost. Either stop at different stations to GWR (and there aren't any between Bristol Parkway & Reading), start somewhere beyond Cardiff, or run by another route.
     

Share This Page