Grayling: It's not my fault the May recast went wrong, I'm no rail expert

[ChiefPlanner]

Because he know DfT don't have the budget for electrification! Hence Bi-modes as the solution because of the lower up front cost. Same hope with Digital Signalling to kick the can down the road for a while on things like grade separation... by which time everyone involved will have retired

Very good point and well made. We can be grateful the "electric spine" disappeared - "barking idea" , as if Freight would happily invest in electric haulage where diesel is so cheap and flexible.

 

[js1000]

Someone tell Chris Grayling that a bad workman blames his tools.

 

[Tio Terry]

Is it really reasonable to expect any SoS to know all about the Department they are in charge of? I worked in the railway industry for 53 years, but I could never put a timetable together. Graying's been there about two years, how much could he possibly have learnt in that time given his other commitments? The TT planning would have been started long before he became Minister, he's totally dependant on his DfT staff - who seem to have failed him big time! Seem's they didn't follow their own rules and apply CSM risk assessment to their plans, if they had done so - properly - then at least all the risks would have been known before the decision was taken to implement - or postpone.

I don't suppose Hunt, or any other Health Minister, ever understands things like open heart surgery!

 

[HH]

Here's why I blame Grayling:

1. Thameslink is a DfT project; they specified it, purchased the rolling stock, specified the timetable, selected the firm running it (and told them to introduce DOO).

2. Having done all that, they left then and NR to get on with it, rather than overseeing the project as the only entity that could control both sides AND act as an independent check.

3. Whatever he knows about Transport, Grayling should not have allowed DfT to wash their hands of this huge, complex timetable change that they had specified.

 

[Tio Terry]

Here's why I blame Grayling:

1. Thameslink is a DfT project; they specified it, purchased the rolling stock, specified the timetable, selected the firm running it (and told them to introduce DOO).

2. Having done all that, they left then and NR to get on with it, rather than overseeing the project as the only entity that could control both sides AND act as an independent check.

3. Whatever he knows about Transport, Grayling should not have allowed DfT to wash their hands of this huge, complex timetable change that they had specified.

Fully agree with your sentiments. There is no doubt in my mind that the DfT have miserably failed their Minister. Many of the decisions surrounding the introduction of the new timetable could only ever have been successfully managed by the DfT - who walked away when they could see that the proverbial was going to hit the fan. Sadly, Grayling was convinced by them that all was well, now he's getting the flack!

 

[Mikey C]

It's ironic that when people don't like the 700s and 800s, they blame the private operators for buying rubbish, uncomfortable trains...and think it would be much better with the state running the railway...

 

[Kettledrum]

Over the last 20 years the following people have been Transport Secretary:

Grayling, Patrick McLoughlin, Justine Greening, Philip Hammond, Adonis, Geoff Hoon, Ruth Kelly, Douglas Alexander, Alastair Darling, John Spellar, Stephen Byers, John Prescott.
.

What a depressing list. I assumed that Grayling was one of the least competent Transport Secretary's, but if you had to draw up a league table from this list, there's so little to choose between them with the possible exception of Adonis and McLoughlin.

Most of them did very little on their watch to advance Britain's railway infrastructure. Grayling at least will be able to point to large numbers of new trains - which is more than most of the others can do.

The ones that were in power in the boom years when public spending was more generous are particularly culpable.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder if news of the long-running Sheffield to Rotherham tram train project has reached the ears of Grayling yet?

 

[CeeJ]

Whether or not Chris Grayling is an expert in railway matters (competency and knowledge have never been prerequisites to becoming a Minister, especially at the DafT), he is ultimately responsible for all actions taken by his department. The officials should have been more aware of the issues that would arise, and should have sought to address them. So did GTR mislead them was DafT just being daft?

Not suggesting Grayling has to resign because of this, but he is still ultimately responsible.

 

[pemma]

Grayling at least will be able to point to large numbers of new trains - which is more than most of the others can do.

I'm sure the Conservatives' PR department will pick up on that, given how much credit they were giving themselves for not cancelling rail infrastructure projects in their 2010 spending review. There were a few who had Grayling's position when John Major was PM, hardly anything of significance was done for the railways during that period but that's not necessarily the fault of those who had the position given the government was in the process of working out how to privatise the railways.

 

[Carlisle]

3. Whatever he knows about Transport, Grayling should not have allowed DfT to wash their hands of this huge, complex timetable change that they had specified.

However we experienced a fairly similar timetable meltdown called Operation Princess in 2002/3, long before DFT/govt could stand accused of micromanaging every part of the industry and thus shoulder most of the blame.

 

[Master29]

Why is everyone surprised at this. How many previous ministerial disasters can we deem countless rather than on one hand. Most of the Government are on the take and it has always been so. Grayling the latest example and by no means in a void so we just accept and move on coz we`re British.

 

[zoneking]

Grayling is one of the most useless Secretaries of State ever. The services on may railway lines are appalling. We have the fiasco of the May timetable, the Southern strikes and now the SWR strikes. Rail fares keep going up for a worse service. People are voting with their feet and abandoning the trains in their droves. This reduces the income coming on to the railways. If it keeps on like this then all planned improvement will be curtailed because there will be no money to pay for them. Passengers/customers are being treated with contempt, as usual.

 

[HH]

However we experienced a fairly similar timetable meltdown called Operation Princess in 2002/3, long before DFT/govt could stand accused of micromanaging every part of the industry and thus shoulder most of the blame.

I seem to recall that the largest issue was DfT decision that only 5-car trains were needed, but a lot of beer under the bridge since then.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I seem to recall that the largest issue was DfT decision that only 5-car trains were needed, but a lot of beer under the bridge since then.

That was a Virgin decision - the SRA (not the DfT) - had the onerous job of trying to put matters right ...not without some difficulties of course.

 

[jon0844]

If he knows nothing about railways then why is he so adamant that bi-modes are the future and that extra through platforms at Man Picc are not needed because of 'Digital' signalling despite industry experts saying the opposite?

To be fair, with Network Rail struggling along and being behind on so many things, bi-mode trains do solve a problem pretty quickly. I would of course hope that during the course of buying new bi-mode trains going forward, there would be a plan to replace the diesel tanks with batteries to make them ready for the future in a way that even a standard EMU would not.

I am not convinced that's the case. Can the IEPs ever be so converted, and what about the other bi-modes? I know Vivarail has done a lot of work on this, but that's small fry stuff right now.

But back to competence, he may not have specific railway knowledge but he's effectively the boss and should be able to have meetings to determine what is and isn't happening, and checking where things are going wrong (or could). The Thameslink readiness board was clearly a total waste of time, and seems like a clever way to outsource the problem of having to manage things - precisely to then put the blame on it because you delegated all responsibility to others.

On that basis, why have the position at all? Outsource him and the DfT and just report direct to the PM.

Oh, that'll be why! The PMs human shield!

 

[JamesT]

That was a Virgin decision - the SRA (not the DfT) - had the onerous job of trying to put matters right ...not without some difficulties of course.

Although the initial decision to go for shorter trains was Virgin’s, my understanding was that on several occasions afterwards Virgin tried to get the trains lengthened but were refused by the SRA or DfT. Is this not the case?

 

[edwin_m]

I am not convinced that's the case. Can the IEPs ever be so converted, and what about the other bi-modes? I know Vivarail has done a lot of work on this, but that's small fry stuff right now.

In principle probably yes. The IEP is a modular design and someone could design a "battery module" that has the same dimensions, weight, mechanical and electrical connections but carries batteries instead of a diesel engine, alternator and fuel tank. However it might be more difficult in practice and questionable how much battery could be provided within the size and weight limit.

 

[DarloRich]

Grayling may not be personally responsible for the failings. He is accountable for them.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Although the initial decision to go for shorter trains was Virgin’s, my understanding was that on several occasions afterwards Virgin tried to get the trains lengthened but were refused by the SRA or DfT. Is this not the case?

Yes , you are right - however the industry had zero money after the Hatfield crash (and the immense cost of that) , the Railtrack scenario where a huge increase in funding from the ORR , and the Treasury pretty much refusing any more money (especially on franchise issues) - explains why a period of retrenchment came in.

A lot of the MK1 franchises were in poor financial shape in any case.

 

[PHILIPE]

Just seen on TV News that the contract for the outsourced privatised parts of the Probation service are being terminated because they have gone pear shaped and cost money. Guess who was the Justice Secretary when the plans were introduced

 

[Mollman]

I am not convinced that's the case. Can the IEPs ever be so converted, and what about the other bi-modes? I know Vivarail has done a lot of work on this, but that's small fry stuff right now.

Don't think so as this is one of Bombardiers selling points for their bi-mode Aventra

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>

 

[pt_mad]

People are voting with their feet and abandoning the trains in their droves. This reduces the income coming on to the railways. If it keeps on like this then all planned improvement will be curtailed because there will be no money to pay for them. Passengers/customers are being treated with contempt, as usual.

I doubt they'll abandon the train and try driving into central London. That'd last all of a week.

If there's disruption on the roads you're late and there's no compensation to claim.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Grayling may not be personally responsible for the failings. He is accountable for them.

Absolutely

 

[Mikey C]

I doubt they'll abandon the train and try driving into central London. That'd last all of a week.

If there's disruption on the roads you're late and there's no compensation to claim.

The alternative to commuting in by train into London is sometimes working from home

Not something you can do every day, but it is making a difference

 

[pt_mad]

Second story on BBC News at One today, Andy Burnham mayor or Greater Manchester is calling for direct action from the government on Northern Rail, potentially taking the franchise back into public hands. He said Arriva Northern are in breach of their franchise agreement. Suggestion was hinted that Chris Grayling ought to resign on that he said government need to take direct responsibility. He said words to the effect of they (governnent) need to take their attention away from Brexit for a minute and send someone up to the North West to take some action and responsibility for what is going on.

Mr Burnham said he has written to Mr Grayling twice directly about Northern, has received no response, and has now as of today written to the PM Teresa May demanding she take action herself rather than leave it to Grayling.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Mr Burnham said he has written to Mr Grayling twice directly about Northern, has received no response, and has now as of today written to the PM Teresa May demanding she take action herself rather than leave it to Grayling.

Does he expect that the PM will intervene, when she still has a minister in post?

 

[Sceptre]

Indeed. We know that his predecessor ignored the advice of a civil servant in mandating that the Northern franchise should replace all the Pacer trains.

To be fair to McLoughlin, he was entirely justified in overruling his Permanent Secretary. “Material issues outside the remit of the accounting officer”, or whatever wording he used, was very clearly code for “I have to use the ****ers and you don’t, so shut your trap”.

 

[pemma]

Granda Reports has reported that the PM has 'full confidence' in Grayling.